Incomplete thoughts on rereading A Game of Thrones

[etherealfionna]

(Many thanks for all the birthday wishes yesterday!)

Caveat: my memory of the books I've read is appalling, so I may change my mind later in the reread, or may in fact have forgotten things that are obvious in the later books.

Comments

[liadnan]

Although I've long been of the "Jon Targaryen" school of thought, the colouring thing has occurred to me in the past. NB also all the Ned musings about how there's some secret Lyanna made him promise not to tell, which tend to accompany him thinking about Jon and Robert ranting about Rhaegar

[etherealfionna]

There's some conversation between Ned and Robert where Ned does give a woman's name as the mother.
Wylla. Actually, I tend to see that bit as some heavy-handed author plotting to let us know that Ned isn't Jon's father, as Robert immediately asks what she looked like, the clear implication that even Robert hadn't ever met her.

But yeah, wotsit could still be the mother and Ned the father.

I finally came to the conclusion that it's Varys and Illyrio
Ah hah! I had figured out Varys, but couldn't get who the other one was.

Although I found an interesting site: http://members.aol.com/vbkorik27/main.html, containing chapter by chapter summaries of each book, complete with what you just said. Their own conclusions and ideas, obviously, but worth checking out - I've just skimmed it.

[etherealfionna]

Something else I meant to say:

Ned musings about how there's some secret Lyanna made him promise not to tell

I was thinking that this may be another sniff of a red herring. He thinks about it so often, we as readers of fantasy are expecting it to develop into something more. But it is possible that this is just Ned being traumatised, reliving again and again his sister's deathbed. Apparently, Lyanna begged and begged Ned to promise, even though he promised from the first, so it could have been quite a trivial matter, the begging would stay in the memory anyway. IYSWIM.

[liadnan]

Oh, one thing that occurred to me on the tube: the fact that there are no non-Targaryen families with Targaryen looks, given that even without marriages out there would surely have been bastards, possibly indicates the looks are recessive and only survive because of the main line of the family's appalling inbreeding.

[n0ody]

Happy belated birthday! :D

[etherealfionna]

Thanks!

[rysmiel]

Collective wisdom has it that Jon Snow must be Lyanna's son, after her rape at the hands of Rhaegar. I'm having slight doubts.

I have serious doubts about whether that "rape" exists outside of Robert Baratheon's imagination, shaped by his pathological hatred of Targaryens. Or at least, Lyanna's deathbed as described in the chapter early in A Game of Thrones struck me as a lot more like childbirth gone horrendously wrong than abuse. I think Ned knows, and the age matches for Jon, and Ned smuggled Jon out at that point and this is why he treats Jon as he does over Catelyn's ongoing objections. I also think Martin cheats slightly, or is at least unduly clumsy, with Ned's recollection of that scene to obscure this

[etherealfionna]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Maybe.

There were snippets later on in the series to make me think of Rhaegar and Lyanna as star-crossed lovers
This is certainly the way I am leaning now, especially after liadnan's comments above.

it is outside his conceptual horizon that Lyanna could have had a consensual relationship with a Targaryen.
Absolutely. It would also go some way to explaining his pathological hatred for the Targaryens, if his betrothed had an affair with/married one of them.

On the secret marriage, which I think will now be my pet theory, Rhaegar's bigotry would make for interesting future relationships with the Martells, the kin of his first wife.

I look forward to your comments on your own reread, then.