On the things you take for granted.

[estriel]

It's that kind of age we're in. My friends are getting engaged, married, have kids. I see engagement announcements, wedding pictures, pregnant bellies, red and crumpled newborn skin all over Facebook

Comments

[marsianka_selma]

Well... What can I say... That's not fair. :(

We can’t even get registered wherever and whenever we want, because in most cases there’s only one way to do it and that is at the city hall, in a specific room, at a specific time.
That's how all people get married in Russia/Ukraine/Belarus, straight couples, I mean. In an official institution only, and you should wait 2 or 3 months usually because there're too many applications. I know it's not reassuring, of course.

At least you can make your little personal contribution to change things... in the remote future.

[estriel]

I know. I was just... ranting, I guess. :) I don't do it often but sometimes things just piss me off.

And well, in many of the countries I know about, it is possible - for an extra fee (and with a reservation in advance, of course - that's always that way everywhere, that you have to wait) - to marry outside of the city hall. Like, you can get an official to hold the ceremony somewhere else, like at a castle, or in the open somewhere. Or maybe I'm wrong and you do have to do the official part somewhere in the city hall, but then have another ceremony wherever you choose.
The funny thing here in Slovenia, for instance, is that same-sex registrations are on I think Tuesdays or Thursdays (working days) between 10 and 14. Basically, everyone is at work for that. And, since it's not a wedding, you're not even entitled for the couple of days off work that you get for your own (straight) wedding. So basically it's stupid for guests and the couple alike. I mean, there's a reason why most weddings are on a Saturday!

[dangerouss]

May I add something here?
You cannot marry wherever you like without paying a fee as well! So this is not any discrimination at all.
And I don't know about Slovenia but if they say you have to "get registered" on specific days only, it doesn't mean you have to! According to Prague 1's rules, no one is supposed to get married on Saturday there. O_o And see - there were 8 weddings there on 23rd June, including ours. I didn't ask - I just said I wanted it to be held on that day and it wasn't a problem.

[estriel]

Well, I said that in many countries, this is possible. I don't know specifically about CZ, but many people do get married outside the city hall. I know that in most countries you do have to sign in the city hall and whatnot, but you do generally have the option to have a wedding ceremony outside of the city hall IN ADDITION to signing the papers at the official location. Plus there's the whole church wedding thing. ;)

It does mean you have to here - there's a designated time and place for gay registrations, or so I hear (we know a few couples who've done it). You don't have any other day available to register, or any other room.

[dangerouss]

We can’t even get registered wherever and whenever we want, because in most cases there’s only one way to do it and that is at the city hall, in a specific room, at a specific time.
I don't think tha's true. ;) There are more restrictions, true, but not that many.
Otherwise I agree with what you wrote here.
But I insist on claiming that I am married.

[estriel]

Well, you're being optimistic - and I don't begrudge you that, I am actually glad you're happily married and believe me, to me if you say you're married, I'll believe you. :) Sadly, the state won't and the hospital won't if you want to have an in-vitro and the adoption office won't if you want to adopt and the tax authority won't if you want to get tax benefits. I don't know exactly how far the equality extends in the Czech Republic, but the point is - it's not full equality, not officially and not in people's heads and not in how gay registered partnerships are perceived by the public... and that's what's pissing me off

[dangerouss]

I know that the state won't. :( I look optimistic most of the time and I really do find things that work (like the date and place of the ceremony etc.) but I do get pissed off, too. Like... L informed her employer that she has a wife partner that is still studying - because of the taxes etc... And what did we learn? I should be her his wife since partners don't count. I thought I'd jump out of a window and go kill the polititians with a shard at that moment. O_o WTF is that supposed to mean?!

But I say I'm married because I want to be perceived like that by other people. (And I would be married if I could.) I still believe that the more you show them, the more ordinary it becomes. I know the state doesn't think so but they're people, too (however retarded O_o). When my friends think I'm married, they can spread the influence a little bit further? I know I can't change everyone's mind but I want to have a small piece in that effort. Is that too naive to believe

[estriel]

I read about the taxe issue on L's journal. I'm sorry. That's exactly the kind of unfairness that I'm talking about. in Germany, for instance, married couples get extensive tax relief (they pay lower taxes, because it looks at cummulative income) - doesn't apply to gays, of course. In Slovenia, what happened to one gay couple we know (they're not registered, but they've been together for 8 years, they live together - practically married) - one of them was studying and receiving some sort of support because her income level was low. What happened when they found out that the woman she's living with is not a flatmate, but her partner, they took away that support (or wanted to - not sure how it played out), because their total income as a couple was higher than the threshold for receiving that financial support... funny how there's a double standard - when it suits them, they will consider you a couple.

I think you've got the right attitude - I totally agree. Perception matters. :)

[inspiredlife]

I really, really get this post. It's tremendously frustrating and saddening that we don't have full equality. But, I really cling to the fact that there have been improvements and we are seeing progress. So often I feel slapped in the face, made to felt inferior, etc but I'm so grateful to live in a time where progress is being made. That being said, I recently ranted a bit on fb so I know where you're coming from.

There is a lot I am still learning about Czech law so I realize I am far from an authority. But my immigration lawyer is pushing us to have a civil union sooner rather than later because it will afford me some rights. I will be granted permanent residency immediately and automatically. So, somewhere in the laws, civil unions are recognized. I realize it doesn't help us in terms of taxes. And the adoption laws in CZ are disgusting. But I am seeing some positive changes

[pearliswhite]

...I don't know what to say.Yes I guess I took the things for granted and I still do concerning a lot of them. I worry about not being able to get married 'on time' (before a woman grows too old to be in the market as they say), worry about not being able to find a man(sigh). I never thought about not having a proper wedding ceremony, or the awkwardness and guts taking my partner home...he must be a man, how can he not be?...well.:(

But there's one thing I know FOR SURE, that is how terrifying hard it can be living as a minor of the society. Pain. Frustration. Loneliness. Iron-nerve requested.