My mare was similar, but never ended up in the big bit (ok, jointed kimberwick or pelham for x country if she was in a mood, but I rode 97% of the time in a french link). I honest to god spent a month doing 1/2 halt transitions from a walk to halt, trot to walk. We didn't make it to canter in the month. But it was just getting her to listen to my seat before we could work on anything else. If they don't listen to your seat there is no way you are going to get them soft and supple and relaxed at the poll.
So that would be my suggestion. Put him in a bit you are comfortable working with him in and spend some time walk one step halt with the seat. wait. walk one step halt. wait. work up to doing circles periodically half halting (3-4x per circle) getting him to chill out and listening to the seat.
Transitions. Put the horse in a mild bit that fits him, and work him mostly at a gait in which you have control. Do a billion transitions in and out of the gait, and within the gait. You need to find the gas and break. Walk walk walk, then trot just a few steps. Break to a walk, and keep walking. Walk faster, walk more slowly. Halt. Walk - trot - walk - halt - walk - trot - extend the trot slightly - collect again - walk. Every time he gives you the response you want, praise him.
I have not worked with OTTBs myself but I have ridden a lot of young WBs whose impression of the world is that it's a place in which one must throw oneself forward as fast as possible. Transitions within and between gaits is in my opinion always a good place to start. Good luck!
Yes, I've been mostly walking, because that's about all he can do without flying off the face of the earth. I've been doing constant walk/halt/trot/walk transitions but it really seems to stress him out more and he dances around...... ugh.
If the halt is mentally too hard for him, change it to a half-halt. Every time he reacts positively to what you're asking him to do, give him a pat and an encouraging word. If the halt is entirely too much to ask for at the moment, focus on transitions within the walk until you have speed control, and then add a few steps of controlled trot. As soon as he runs away, bring him back to a walk. These things take time and your best colleague in this endeavor is your patience.
As spazzy444 pointed out, try to do most of this from your seat. A horse can run through essentially any kind of bit and any kind of head position, but you obviously don't want to encourage that kind of behavior. Depending upon what his mouth looks like, pick the mildest bit you can find. If you're truly afraid of him running away with you, you could always put on drawreins without using them (don't let them drag to the ground but don't tug on them either - I've seen people loop them through a strap at the front of the saddle). Is your arena indoors or outdoors? Whatever
( ... )
Sorry - I should have said he is not 100% running away with me. I CAN stop him, but it is ugly and I feel like an ass being carried around the ring pretty fast. And yes, seat seat seat!! I ride with longer stirrups on him, too.
I want to push him out from behind the bit, but I think he would just end up galloping away.
We have an outdoor with a gate which stays closed :)
The starting point for solving this is bending. You can't bend a horse in a shanked bit, or at least not until they're pretty advanced, because that's simply not how the leverage works. So stick with the snaffle. This will also help because they're probably a little intimidated by the bit now as it's really stopping them through pain rather than because they want to do what their rider asks, so that's a hard thing for a horse to deal with
( ... )
Another thought- a horse can run away in walk, or even in halt. If you are riding a horse that runs away in trot, I bet there is acceleration going on in other gaits as well. You might find that just sitting there in halt and putting them back every time they go to take a step that you didn't ask for might be helpful. Then in walk you need to pay close attention to the speed and make sure it is always the speed you are asking for. Ask for faster and slower walk to keep the horse listening.
This is why I hate the 'bend his neck in half' school of training.
All it eventually does is give the horse a mighty wide door to escape out of, and teach him how to go through it.
If he is overbending, put his ribcage and shoulder on your INSIDE leg with outside rein and leg. If you accomplish your circle from your OUTSIDE aids, he can not overbend.
Try riding a counterbent circle and making it smaller and smaller. Many people can not have their horse look right and turn left, because the horse is not schooled to the outside leg (which technically, is used at the girth as an 'inside' leg in this turn because of the counter bend). If you can't turn across the middle from leg, while counterbent, he needs to learn lateral response to the leg. So practice legyielding, switching his ribcage from leg to leg, serpentines, etc. This controls the horse under you, rather than riding the neck that is out in front
( ... )
haha "the last thing i need is him to get super fit" - too late, his owner does it.
Okay good i feel like I have the idea and goal of pretty much everything you say here. I stay nonchalant and calm. Really, his running doesnt scare or bother me, but I can't get any training done because running is all he does!
I just try to chill, encourage him to stretch his head into the bridle without running.
I do go for zen and slow slow slow.
Transitions do make him hot.
Thankkkkkkkks I'm trying to be supportive and helpful and trustworthy for sure.. "Hey Spartan, just chill out and it will all be okay, you dont have to run, you can just relax!!!"
"Hey Spartan, just chill out and it will all be okay, you dont have to run, you can just relax!!!"The other thing is that sometimes with this sort of horse, "just relax" isn't something they're capable of. Most humans can't will themselves to "just relax," and we know what we're aiming for and why it matters, right? The horse doesn't have "relaxed while working under saddle" as one of his life goals, so even though it's one of your goals for him, you have to lead him to it and show him that it's an option (and that it feels good
( ... )
You can use your hands to TRAIN the correct response.
So, move out of the walk into the halt. Keep a very close eye on whether or not he is under your seat, or if he is starting to charge ahead. Count the 1234 rythm, the second it gets faster, halt and back. Hesitate, pat him and walk.
At the trot, same deal. The second he gets quick, walk. LET GO, pat him, and trot again. Then, the second he gets quick, walk. LET GO, pat him, and trot
( ... )
Well, training a horse properly is a long ass process.
The horse you describe is basically not broke.
It takes at least six months to get a decent Training/schooling First level ride out of a horse.
If no one taught him this before you, ...tag, you're it!
(And, in case you are wondering why every single response from me, regardless of what problem you report, involves moving the horse's spine from one of your thighs to the other and really having lateral control over the horse that is under you ....if you own the spine beneath you, you own the horse. Numero uno thing to take care of on EVERY horse, EVERY time. Save the neck crap for later. Who rides the neck? We ride the back! ;) )
Agree, agree, agree... Do you know how many horses I ride that have NO lateral spine control.. omg.
The reason I sound like such a terrible rider is because I catch ride until my 2.5yo gets older, and I'm riding horses out of work with bad base training.
I ask myself how much effort I am willing to put into each horse and how long I have to work with them. The answer is usually not long enough to accomplish really good results. The former answer is that I am willing to work on it because it is good practice and training for me, too.
Comments 61
I honest to god spent a month doing 1/2 halt transitions from a walk to halt, trot to walk. We didn't make it to canter in the month. But it was just getting her to listen to my seat before we could work on anything else. If they don't listen to your seat there is no way you are going to get them soft and supple and relaxed at the poll.
So that would be my suggestion. Put him in a bit you are comfortable working with him in and spend some time walk one step halt with the seat. wait. walk one step halt. wait. work up to doing circles periodically half halting (3-4x per circle) getting him to chill out and listening to the seat.
Reply
I have not worked with OTTBs myself but I have ridden a lot of young WBs whose impression of the world is that it's a place in which one must throw oneself forward as fast as possible. Transitions within and between gaits is in my opinion always a good place to start. Good luck!
Reply
Yes, I've been mostly walking, because that's about all he can do without flying off the face of the earth. I've been doing constant walk/halt/trot/walk transitions but it really seems to stress him out more and he dances around...... ugh.
Reply
As spazzy444 pointed out, try to do most of this from your seat. A horse can run through essentially any kind of bit and any kind of head position, but you obviously don't want to encourage that kind of behavior. Depending upon what his mouth looks like, pick the mildest bit you can find. If you're truly afraid of him running away with you, you could always put on drawreins without using them (don't let them drag to the ground but don't tug on them either - I've seen people loop them through a strap at the front of the saddle). Is your arena indoors or outdoors? Whatever ( ... )
Reply
I want to push him out from behind the bit, but I think he would just end up galloping away.
We have an outdoor with a gate which stays closed :)
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Reply
Another thought- a horse can run away in walk, or even in halt. If you are riding a horse that runs away in trot, I bet there is acceleration going on in other gaits as well. You might find that just sitting there in halt and putting them back every time they go to take a step that you didn't ask for might be helpful. Then in walk you need to pay close attention to the speed and make sure it is always the speed you are asking for. Ask for faster and slower walk to keep the horse listening.
Reply
I've tried the circle small enough until its uncomfortable for them to go fast method... but he just basically canters in place.
As for the bending, its almost like he can over bend too much. I need to get a different bit in and maybe ill have a different story.
^^^ He is bending in the neck though, NOT the body. <-problem.
I like the disengage idea. Thank you!
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This is why I hate the 'bend his neck in half' school of training.
All it eventually does is give the horse a mighty wide door to escape out of, and teach him how to go through it.
If he is overbending, put his ribcage and shoulder on your INSIDE leg with outside rein and leg. If you accomplish your circle from your OUTSIDE aids, he can not overbend.
Try riding a counterbent circle and making it smaller and smaller.
Many people can not have their horse look right and turn left, because the horse is not schooled to the outside leg (which technically, is used at the girth as an 'inside' leg in this turn because of the counter bend).
If you can't turn across the middle from leg, while counterbent, he needs to learn lateral response to the leg. So practice legyielding, switching his ribcage from leg to leg, serpentines, etc. This controls the horse under you, rather than riding the neck that is out in front ( ... )
Reply
Sit slower.
Slower than that.
Slower than that.
Think relaxed. Think lazy. Get a hair left behind. Cultivate an attitude of Zen ( ... )
Reply
Okay good i feel like I have the idea and goal of pretty much everything you say here. I stay nonchalant and calm. Really, his running doesnt scare or bother me, but I can't get any training done because running is all he does!
I just try to chill, encourage him to stretch his head into the bridle without running.
I do go for zen and slow slow slow.
Transitions do make him hot.
Thankkkkkkkks
I'm trying to be supportive and helpful and trustworthy for sure.. "Hey Spartan, just chill out and it will all be okay, you dont have to run, you can just relax!!!"
Reply
Reply
So, move out of the walk into the halt. Keep a very close eye on whether or not he is under your seat, or if he is starting to charge ahead. Count the 1234 rythm, the second it gets faster, halt and back. Hesitate, pat him and walk.
At the trot, same deal.
The second he gets quick, walk. LET GO, pat him, and trot again.
Then, the second he gets quick, walk. LET GO, pat him, and trot ( ... )
Reply
Reply
The horse you describe is basically not broke.
It takes at least six months to get a decent Training/schooling First level ride out of a horse.
If no one taught him this before you, ...tag, you're it!
(And, in case you are wondering why every single response from me, regardless of what problem you report, involves moving the horse's spine from one of your thighs to the other and really having lateral control over the horse that is under you ....if you own the spine beneath you, you own the horse. Numero uno thing to take care of on EVERY horse, EVERY time. Save the neck crap for later. Who rides the neck? We ride the back! ;) )
Reply
The reason I sound like such a terrible rider is because I catch ride until my 2.5yo gets older, and I'm riding horses out of work with bad base training.
I ask myself how much effort I am willing to put into each horse and how long I have to work with them. The answer is usually not long enough to accomplish really good results. The former answer is that I am willing to work on it because it is good practice and training for me, too.
Reply
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