The miniscopes...I did not know about that. The cruel irony of being trapped in the very thing he protested. And it echoes back to the punishments those who defied Rassilon's cruelty endured. See, this is why I included that! The second we saw what it was, it was my first thought. Whether all Confession dials work like that, or if they just adapted that one, I don't know. But it makes perfect sense. Simple, effective, easily understood, and - for those who know - an added tie-back to the Classic show. (Miniscopes feature in various episodes, I forget which ones.)
And his anger when he realized he had been trapped. The Time Lords, the High Council, the Gray Council and the Celestial Intervention Agency always did know how to pull his strings and make him dance. This. They've always used him when they needed him, manipulating him for their own ends...
Their technology after all...and very fitting, as I'm sure he was punished for deviating from standard Time Lord behavior. But like all dictators, they see
( ... )
SIX: The oldest civilisation: decadent, degenerate, and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen - they're still in the nursery compared to us. Ten million years of absolute power. That's what it takes to be really corrupt.
or Eight and Cass:
CASS: Don't touch me! DOCTOR: I'm not part of the war. I swear to you, I never was. CASS: You're a Time Lord. DOCTOR: Yes, I'm a Time Lord, but I'm one of the nice ones. CASS: Get away from me! DOCTOR: Well, look on the bright side. I'm not a Dalek. CASS: Who can tell the difference any more?
So not only does the Church’s Interdict in Time of the Doctor exactly mirror the Pandorica gambit at the end of series 5, but maybe they had a point and they were right to try to keep the Time Lords from getting back into the universe? The mind boggles...
Lock the Doctor away and he can't try to 'rewrite Time', which was Eleven's mantra. Stop him before he knows he NEEDS to be stopped, because (unfortunately) he IS a Time Lord and is a rather determined and pig-headed one. He does still carry certain qualities of his race, even as they are watered down and turned towards (mostly) good intentions.
It is just funny - in a terrible way - that he wandered around thinking his race was gone and every OTHER race knew differently! All they had to do was lock him away and the problem would be solved. Bonus being: No more Time Lords EVER and they go back to being a myth.
Even if the Doctor being gone was the consequence. They know he is needed, but they also know he is dangerous. To himself and to the universe, even if he is unaware of HOW.
The his own people locked him away and it only drove him to do what every other race was trying to stop him from doing.
Beautiful. Love the Truth or Consequences realisation - I so didn't get that, and it's such lovely echoing/foreshadowing! And the miniscope, which I also didn't get despite having watched Carnival of Monsters when the Horror Channel showed it a few weeks ago! My mind this time instinctively went to virtual reality, because that's so common these days, but I love the idea that he actually was a tiny, tiny Doctor for two billion years. Three would have boggled
( ... )
Beautiful. Love the Truth or Consequences realisation - I so didn't get that, and it's such lovely echoing/foreshadowing! IKR? Something went click in my head, and ohhh.
And the miniscope, which I also didn't get despite having watched Carnival of Monsters when the Horror Channel showed it a few weeks ago! My mind this time instinctively went to virtual reality, because that's so common these days, but I love the idea that he actually was a tiny, tiny Doctor for two billion years. Three would have boggled! LOL, yes. And I think that is if looks like a miniscope, then it probably is one. Esp as the Doctor would be able to spot virtual reality in a second. (See 'Amy's Choice' and 'The God Complex'.)
I am going to have to watch this ep again (of course I am - there's so much to see) I've only watched it twice, but want to rewatch it so much more, because it's just so gorgeous.
However, your point (and others') about it being a creation of the Time Lords all along makes much more sense; I just need to get my head round it. I think it's
( ... )
I'd always assumed the confession dial must be something the Doctor came up with himself, because it's *his* confession dial, and also because in the light of this ep punishing himself for two billion years really seems like something he would inflict on himself, albeit it would have to be a scenario drawn from his subconscious or something because obviously he didn't know what was going on right from the start. Nah, I'm with you. I loved this episode from 'go' because . . . well, obviously it is amazing. But I loved it even more once I realized that, as this is the Doctor's confession dial (and because it is a confession dial), then he can be seen at least partially as the architect of his own suffering and thus the whole thing works as a metaphor for guilt.
Who then devised the torment? Love. Love is the unfamiliar Name Behind the hands that wove The intolerable shirt of flame Which human power cannot remove. We only live, only suspire Consumed by either fire or fire.
and
We die with the dying: See, they depart, and we go with them. We are born with the dead: See, they return, and bring us with them.
and finally
With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this Calling
We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time.
I didn't know about the miniscopes but it makes sense given the Time Lord attitude to other forms of life... they are really awful.
Those two verses of Jesus to a Child remind me of Last Christmas because Danny came back to Clara on a cold night and told her that it would be okay but she couldn't give up and had to keep fighting. It seems only fitting that Clara would do the same for the Doctor.
Ah, Eliot. YAY! Someone pulled out the Eliot part. ♥
(I wish I had more time for poetry...)
I didn't know about the miniscopes but it makes sense given the Time Lord attitude to other forms of life... they are really awful. Not sure how clear my cut & pasted information was - they didn't invent them, or use them, or anything. But the Doctor got them to use their power to have them banned in the universe generally... *goes to edit post* (This is why I shouldn't post at 12.30am!)
Mind you, it makes perfect sense for them to use something like that.
Those two verses of Jesus to a Child remind me of Last Christmas because Danny came back to Clara on a cold night and told her that it would be okay but she couldn't give up and had to keep fighting. It seems only fitting that Clara would do the same for the Doctor. Ohhhh. Oh now I want a Clara/Danny vid to that song. (Although it'd be unbearably sad, of course.)
BasiliskRules is inspired by 12 and breaks through the wall instead of the ceiling this timesea_thoughtsDecember 6 2015, 16:16:19 UTC
Ah, Eliot. YAY! Someone pulled out the Eliot part. ♥ (I wish I had more time for poetry...)
Alright, pause this, stop, stop, stop, this is important, I can’t.
Elisi, you magnificent human being, if you want to know, you are the one who introduced me to “Little Gidding” and for that, you have my everlasting gratitude because IT’S SO BEAUTIFUL.
My point being, great minds think alike. Metafictional ones also. I *did* pull out Eliot all by myself, before you wrote this, along with Shelley, Wilde, and many others.
And I said “LET THERE BE FIC” and it was good.
I know you have a schedule, but you mentioned Eliot! And you keep going! I can’t just sit by, I can’t! Please. “Doctor Who: Phoenix Unbound”, first thing on Google. It’s a gift. If you can. <3
( ... )
Re: BasiliskRules is inspired by 12 and breaks through the wall instead of the ceiling this timeelisiDecember 9 2015, 13:43:11 UTC
Alright, pause this, stop, stop, stop, this is important, I can’t. :)
Elisi, you magnificent human being, if you want to know, you are the one who introduced me to “Little Gidding” and for that, you have my everlasting gratitude because IT’S SO BEAUTIFUL. ♥ ♥ ♥ This makes me so happy. And it was Promethia who introduced me... I love it when things gets passed on in that way.
It’s a gift. If you can. <3 If it wasn't for Christmas happening very soon, I'd have read this already. It's on my list! Thank you.
I also didn’t know about the miniscopes. We don’t need no Matrix, you are the source of all Who-knowledge, daum. (Applause) My knowledge is eclectic, but extensive. :)
The Time Lords are assholes and they are also idiots. I love the fact that they're back to their old role (basically, jerks), rather than a) people the Doctor feels guilty for killing and b) people who wanted to blow up the universe.
Another reason to leave Gallifrey except the bored/scared part. The percentage of cruel idiots is too damn highAs the Sixth Doctor
( ... )
Comments 62
...I'll just be over here slapping myself on the head. Brilliant catch.
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Yet another cruelty, methinks.
One of those 'Daddy's watching!!' only Daddy has a razor blade if you are what he deems as 'naughty'. UGH.
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♥ ♥ ♥
The miniscopes...I did not know about that. The cruel irony of being trapped in the very thing he protested. And it echoes back to the punishments those who defied Rassilon's cruelty endured.
See, this is why I included that! The second we saw what it was, it was my first thought. Whether all Confession dials work like that, or if they just adapted that one, I don't know. But it makes perfect sense. Simple, effective, easily understood, and - for those who know - an added tie-back to the Classic show. (Miniscopes feature in various episodes, I forget which ones.)
And his anger when he realized he had been trapped. The Time Lords, the High Council, the Gray Council and the Celestial Intervention Agency always did know how to pull his strings and make him dance.
This. They've always used him when they needed him, manipulating him for their own ends...
Their technology after all...and very fitting, as I'm sure he was punished for deviating from standard Time Lord behavior. But like all dictators, they see ( ... )
Reply
or Eight and Cass:
CASS: Don't touch me!
DOCTOR: I'm not part of the war. I swear to you, I never was.
CASS: You're a Time Lord.
DOCTOR: Yes, I'm a Time Lord, but I'm one of the nice ones.
CASS: Get away from me!
DOCTOR: Well, look on the bright side. I'm not a Dalek.
CASS: Who can tell the difference any more?
So not only does the Church’s Interdict in Time of the Doctor exactly mirror the Pandorica gambit at the end of series 5, but maybe they had a point and they were right to try to keep the Time Lords from getting back into the universe? The mind boggles...
Reply
It is just funny - in a terrible way - that he wandered around thinking his race was gone and every OTHER race knew differently! All they had to do was lock him away and the problem would be solved. Bonus being: No more Time Lords EVER and they go back to being a myth.
Even if the Doctor being gone was the consequence. They know he is needed, but they also know he is dangerous. To himself and to the universe, even if he is unaware of HOW.
The his own people locked him away and it only drove him to do what every other race was trying to stop him from doing.
*Sigh*
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IKR? Something went click in my head, and ohhh.
And the miniscope, which I also didn't get despite having watched Carnival of Monsters when the Horror Channel showed it a few weeks ago! My mind this time instinctively went to virtual reality, because that's so common these days, but I love the idea that he actually was a tiny, tiny Doctor for two billion years. Three would have boggled!
LOL, yes. And I think that is if looks like a miniscope, then it probably is one. Esp as the Doctor would be able to spot virtual reality in a second. (See 'Amy's Choice' and 'The God Complex'.)
I am going to have to watch this ep again (of course I am - there's so much to see)
I've only watched it twice, but want to rewatch it so much more, because it's just so gorgeous.
However, your point (and others') about it being a creation of the Time Lords all along makes much more sense; I just need to get my head round it. I think it's ( ... )
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Nah, I'm with you. I loved this episode from 'go' because . . . well, obviously it is amazing. But I loved it even more once I realized that, as this is the Doctor's confession dial (and because it is a confession dial), then he can be seen at least partially as the architect of his own suffering and thus the whole thing works as a metaphor for guilt.
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Lovely meta - or poetry!! ;-)
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Although I'm sure there'll still be PLENTY of questions left. This is Moffat after all.
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Who then devised the torment? Love.
Love is the unfamiliar Name
Behind the hands that wove
The intolerable shirt of flame
Which human power cannot remove.
We only live, only suspire
Consumed by either fire or fire.
and
We die with the dying:
See, they depart, and we go with them.
We are born with the dead:
See, they return, and bring us with them.
and finally
With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this Calling
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
I didn't know about the miniscopes but it makes sense given the Time Lord attitude to other forms of life... they are really awful.
Those two verses of Jesus to a Child remind me of Last Christmas because Danny came back to Clara on a cold night and told her that it would be okay but she couldn't give up and had to keep fighting. It seems only fitting that Clara would do the same for the Doctor.
Reply
YAY! Someone pulled out the Eliot part. ♥
(I wish I had more time for poetry...)
I didn't know about the miniscopes but it makes sense given the Time Lord attitude to other forms of life... they are really awful.
Not sure how clear my cut & pasted information was - they didn't invent them, or use them, or anything. But the Doctor got them to use their power to have them banned in the universe generally... *goes to edit post* (This is why I shouldn't post at 12.30am!)
Mind you, it makes perfect sense for them to use something like that.
Those two verses of Jesus to a Child remind me of Last Christmas because Danny came back to Clara on a cold night and told her that it would be okay but she couldn't give up and had to keep fighting. It seems only fitting that Clara would do the same for the Doctor.
Ohhhh. Oh now I want a Clara/Danny vid to that song. (Although it'd be unbearably sad, of course.)
Reply
YAY! Someone pulled out the Eliot part. ♥
(I wish I had more time for poetry...)
Alright, pause this, stop, stop, stop, this is important, I can’t.
Elisi, you magnificent human being, if you want to know, you are the one who introduced me to “Little Gidding” and for that, you have my everlasting gratitude because IT’S SO BEAUTIFUL.
My point being, great minds think alike. Metafictional ones also.
I *did* pull out Eliot all by myself, before you wrote this, along with Shelley, Wilde, and many others.
And I said “LET THERE BE FIC” and it was good.
I know you have a schedule, but you mentioned Eliot! And you keep going! I can’t just sit by, I can’t!
Please. “Doctor Who: Phoenix Unbound”, first thing on Google. It’s a gift. If you can. <3 ( ... )
Reply
:)
Elisi, you magnificent human being, if you want to know, you are the one who introduced me to “Little Gidding” and for that, you have my everlasting gratitude because IT’S SO BEAUTIFUL.
♥ ♥ ♥ This makes me so happy. And it was Promethia who introduced me... I love it when things gets passed on in that way.
It’s a gift. If you can. <3
If it wasn't for Christmas happening very soon, I'd have read this already. It's on my list! Thank you.
I also didn’t know about the miniscopes. We don’t need no Matrix, you are the source of all Who-knowledge, daum. (Applause)
My knowledge is eclectic, but extensive. :)
The Time Lords are assholes and they are also idiots.
I love the fact that they're back to their old role (basically, jerks), rather than a) people the Doctor feels guilty for killing and b) people who wanted to blow up the universe.
Another reason to leave Gallifrey except the bored/scared part. The percentage of cruel idiots is too damn highAs the Sixth Doctor ( ... )
Reply
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