No pity. No shame. No silence.

[elfwreck]

I wasn't going to directly participate in this meme, because my experience(s?) with non-consensual sex weren't major, weren't particularly traumatic. I didn't have nightmares over them (err, "it;" one that's clear, and a couple of encounters that I could interpret that way if I were so inclined, which I'm generally not; I'm only talking about one

Comments

[katzedecimal]

Your story is quite familiar. Several of my friends were taken advantage of in exactly the same way. One, like you, was woken up by the penetration. For another friend, "yeah, but only with a condom" was interpreted as "do me now." A third friend's boyfriend just badgered and brow-beat and name-called until she gave in just to make him leave her alone

more on date rape

[elfwreck]

I've had someone tell me that date-rape is just the same as violent rape; that it's all about power and control. I can't buy that; I still draw lines between ignorance and malice. (I may get over that, eventually.) I mark a difference between "guys who want to actively hurt and degrade women" and "guys who want to get their rocks off and are too arrogant to believe that not every woman wants to help

Re: more on date rape

[lilairen]

I do the same thing about the difference between ignorance and malice; I have to, to make sense of my own experience.

I find myself feeling somewhat awkward about the vehemence that my experience provokes in people sometimes because of this. Because, yes, I have lasting damage to deal with, but no, he wasn't trying to break me, he was just clueless and seventeen.

It gets wicked tangly real fast.

Re: more on date rape

[katzedecimal]

In discussing this type of rape with one of my friends who's suffered both kinds, she called this "the Kleenex type." -- you feel used like a Kleenex, left full of snot. I quite agree, difference between malice and stupidity, and a difference in the kinds of feelings left in the victims.

[elinor]

I admire your strength that you do just see this as an annoyance and nothing much more - it says a lot for your self-esteem.

I had a vaguely similar situation, where my judgement was severely impared by a long line of Tequila slammers, punctuated by joints, at about the same age. I was also confused about my sexuality (not about orientation - I knew I was bisexual - but I hadn't worked out the boundaries between friendship, sex and 'relationships'). I was too drunk and stoned to even say no, to even put it together in my head what was happening / what we were doing. I ended up in a two and a half year relationship, for reasons of my own - I think I ended up using him more than he ever used me. It wasn't even annoying, just weird.

What my Mom Told Me

[serpentrose]

When I was a teenager my mother told me not to go into a BF's apartment if I wasn't ready to have sex with him. It's sad that there are a lot of guys who are not somuch malicious as cruelly ignorant and lacking respect for women.

It sucks that, as women, we need to be so damn carefull. That we can't afford to trust men in general.

Re: What my Mom Told Me

[saizai]

[/me comes along later and reads this

Re: What my Mom Told Me

[serpentrose]

I agree, not all guys are like that. I'd even go so far as to say that most guys are decent people. (Including my BF who has proven himself wonderful on a great many occasions.)

The trick is to be careful, whatever that means in a given situation.

[dancinglights]

Randomly found your journal and reading back through, it I found this.

I don't want to get hit with, "You really are traumatized; you're just not admitting it. C'mon, we're all traumatized. Reach into yerr Wymyn Power and howl, sistah..." No, I really wasn't traumatized; I was confused and annoyed, and not sure if I was more annoyed at me or him.

Thanks. No, really. Very similar story. And I feel the same way about it, generally keeping my mouth shut because I don't want to deal with Overcoming Victim Mindset Wymyn Power pushy friends. It isn't good that it happens, but it's good to hear about, I actually feel less bad about it now.

Er. right. not the best not to start a hello on, I suppose. But it touched me, so I figured I ought to say something.

[elfwreck]

H'lo. :)

I'm glad it helped. I wrote it 'cos there were all these horrible stories of abuse & trauma going around--and I don't want to disparage them, but I wanted to remind people that there's minor versions as well.

Especially the guys, who might otherwise think that sexual abuse only means the really icky traumatic stuff, and therefore any woman who says she hasn't been through that, must not've had any problems.

Let 'em know what some of those twitchy habits come from. "I never [invite someone inside on a first date/let a guy pay for dinner and a movie on the same night/let a guy drive me home/drink alcohol with someone I haven't already slept with/date anyone from work/bring home a guy from a group event/etc.]" Not big or life-altering rules, but many of them come out of one bad incident, where she then decides "I'll make damn sure that one never happens again."

I wonder how many of the "good guys" know how difficult the creeps have made things for them?

[saizai]

I wonder how many of the "good guys" know how difficult the creeps have made things for them?

Trust me, we know.

[amandamc_11]

Hi. I'm Amanda. I found you on rhonair's journal. I found this particular entry on your info. I've been both violently and non-violently raped and just recently have begun to recognize and talk about it so finding your entry was ... brilliant coincidence. The latter specifically really annoyed me. Mostly because I didn't know what MY role was. Or if it WAS even rape: but this was ... I don't know. It made sense. I fit, somehow. Thank you.

[elfwreck]

Just got this reply through LJ's backlog.

It was a big icky confusing annoying mess, and I think most of the rape-survivor articles & support groups I've run into seem to miss focusing on the cases where the main trauma is "WTF? Didn't I say no? Was I really that unclear, or are there guys who really do think no means yes?"

Apparently, there are. And a lot more of them than I'd really like to believe. Sometimes I wonder if there's a similarly dangerous blind spot in as many female psyches.

[ratkrycek]

Waaay late, got here through - some convoluted LJ thing. I've friended you, by the way; hope that's all right. :)

I just felt the need to say that yes, I think there are similarly dangerous blind spots in some female psyches. Actually, I'm sure of it.

Many? That would be hard to say, but I'd be willing to say yes, I think it's likely.

Which is pretty sad, of course.