Regulating Abortion Thoughts in 2x17

[eektruffle]

So while watching “The Captain’s Hand” again last night, K and I got into a very heated debate about the issue of abortion in terms of what wins out, individual rights or the needs of the whole. So I decided to enumerate some of the arguments instead of studying of a medical school test I have this week. I’m sure there are more that I haven’t

Comments

[nyuszi]

first of all, lemme just say that this was a very interesting post. and well thought out

[eektruffle]

1. I do agree that RDM most likely placed the context of abortion into the program to make it thought provoking. In his past Podcasts, he's mentioned that he wants to challenge viewers and to make them think and grapple with issues that are current in todays world. I think it's awesome for an episode to generate so much debate and provoke so much thought. That is exactly why I love the show so much and what I've come to expect from the show along with possible PILOT love. hehe. Anyhow, I'm questioning not just how RDM dealt with abortion but how our society deals with it where what right does it give one person to tell another what to do with their body. Abortion, should be and is a personal decision and while everyone is completely entitled to their opinion, you don't have the right to impose your opinion on others

[notlobot]

On the issue of what would happen to doctors that would be punished for participating in an abortion, if there was a severe lack of doctors in the fleet they wouldn't need to be put in prison. They could just have thier punishment be something like constant supervision by someone trusted by the president or military. If there was a lack of doctors in the fleet, this wouldn't cause too much of a personnel strain I don't think, because surely not every doctor in the fleet would break the law and do illegal abortions.

[eektruffle]

Your point is understood. I don't know the exact numbers but say that in the US, 5% of the total pop are doctors and with the total population of the fleet approximately 50000, there are approximately 2500 doctors in the fleet. Yes not all would perform abortons. So say only a fifth do, so that would be 500. It would be easy to supervise doctors if they were caught performing an abortion

[alephnul]

My main problem with this is simply that having children at this point is absolutely not what the fleet or humanity needs. In 18 years, humanity will be extinct because they are getting killed too often, not because they aren't having enough children. So will a fleet composed almost entirely of people under 18 actually stand much of a chance against the Cylons? Will having had those children put more of a strain on the fleets resources, increasing the chance that they simply get wiped out faster

[eektruffle]

Granted that losing a carrier like the Olympia is a crushing blow to the population and while casualities of war/battles are unavoidable (Lee and Kara responded to this in Scar) but I do believe that the mundane (old age, accidents, murder) death rate far outstrips the current birth rate. At least that's kind of how my mind sees it especially considering gestation is 10 months and it is far easier for a person to die than to give birth in terms of time, effort so that's why I do agree with Dr. Baltar's current model (which I think is only current for that instant of time and may not be true throughout the 18 years if things change). It is important to have children during this time. I believe with 12 people, you can repopulate the human race. There will most likely be some genetic abnormalities and see some type of founder effect due to that but it isn't just about repopulating the human race. It's also about resupplying the military ships of personel. Yes it will take years for those children to grow but if children begin to study at

[raincitygirl]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And incidentally, I think Roslin decided on vinegar rather than honey because she has gotten used to having extraordinary powers. She doesn't consult the Quorum, she uses the military to enforce her decrees (and as long as she and Adama are on the same page about something, her power is virtually limitless), there's no civilian police force and no judicial system. She means well, but she's gotten used to cutting democratic corners in pursuit of "the survival of the Fleet". The normal checks and balances aren't present, and thus Roslin's able to make decisions which affect the whole fleet without having to actually pass legislation and get people to agree. Also, until recently she was near death, and making decisions with whose consequences she wouldn't have to live in the long term. She's gotten a little too comfortable with being in charge, and knowing better than the fleet knows what is best for it.

[eektruffle]

That's an interesting interpretation of Roslin. While I can see where you're interpreting her having overreaching powers and having no real check and balance system in place, I do kind of see the reason why this needs to be. Aren't they kind of under marshall law? In a way. Not that the military is policing the fleet but the military is their own protection from the cylons so the fleet kind of has to go with them and since Roslin has the power of the military behind her, what she says is law. when you have a check and balance system, you have so much bureacracy just like in our current system of government that nothing can get done. Also, Roslin is able to micromanage a lot since they only have 50,000 people and a limited number of ships. So there really wouldn't be much for the quorum to do except exert rule their own ships

[mejoff]

Don't, of course, forget to factor in Baltar's manipulative talents. He saw what was happening with the religious lobby, who were the real impediment here to a sensible solution (influence don't regulate, as you say). Who's to say Baltar's model was real at all? We've seen him come up with lies good enough to convince those around him on the spot before. He played Roslin beautifully, by presenting the last straw that forced her decision, knowing it would do so, simply to provide himself with an issue to split from her on.

The episode wasn't so much about abortion as about baltar's maneuver.

[eektruffle]

Definitely. Baltar did a fine job in manipulating the circumstances to his advantage I believe. I totally agree with you on Baltar's Model. I feel as though it might have been contrived completely or it was poor science no matter how the people on BSG perceive of Baltar being brilliant. Totally agree with your assessment of the show. I came to realize that it was a plot device but it still erked me at bit in the beginning that they did.