Atalantë by Dwimordene

[dwimordene_2011]

Title: Atalantë
Author: Dwimordene
Summary: Always read between the lines.
Characters: Aldarion, the Guild of Venturers, OCs, political economy
Disclaimer: Fiction. Not JRRT/PJ/related to either. Broke. Please don’t sue. Notes to come later, most likely. Now with 60% more notes than actual text (by page count)!

Comments

[wheelrider]

Looks like you're working through the writer's block! That was a suitably interesting challenge to help. And I dig the result. Will be reading more than a few times...

[dwimordene_2011]

Thanks, Wheelrider! Arda Underground was just a little too suggestive as a name. There's more I'd like to do with it, it's a question of time and plotting (always my weak point).

[wheelrider]

I feel like plot is my weak point as well... I'm considering putting out a call for plot help, even a collaboration of sorts, where another writer comes up with the plot and I flesh it out.

[marta_bee]

You really do write the downtrodden well - I'm thinking of your stories about the Kinstrife, that I also particularly loved. What I like about this one (well, one of the things) is the moral ambiguity: it is more lack of persepctive and understanding, a feeling of not having any other choice,, that drives the conflict in many ways. Of course there are other choices, and many of the people involved are being willfully blind. (There's a reason I never cared much for Aldarion...)

[dwimordene_2011]

Thanks - this is the type of theme I'm interested in investigating, although obviously there's room for expansion, if ever my brain stops wanting to write drabble series.

What I like about this one (well, one of the things) is the moral ambiguity: it is more lack of persepctive and understanding, a feeling of not having any other choice, that drives the conflict in many ways

That's pretty much what I'm aiming for - that sense that no one really has a grasp on the overall picture, or what's developing in the race for productive resources and to put to good use "surplus" population that the older productive system can't really find use for.

I'm ruminating on moral ambiguity, because although I've never addressed it as a theme before, there are some ideas that are brewing in the back of my head that I'd like to post on.

Oops, gotta go - we're descending into the airport area. I owe you another e-mail, I know, but I'll have to do it once I'm flying home again. Sister's wedding this weekend! Big, crazy days just waiting...

[hhimring]

I should have guessed that Arda Underground would be the challenge for you!
I suppose I read this similarly to Marta, but differently. She was struck by the moral ambiguity, I was struck by how they are all in a sense right, only incompatible, and so the clash is inevitable. It saddened me.
If you ever choose to expand on the background of this--as you hint you might consider doing--I'd be interested. Especially perhaps in the idea of the alliance of the drughu and the descendants of the Haladin still surviving at this point, but not only in that.

[dwimordene_2011]

Sorry, I never did reply to you earlier this month - sister's wedding, and then grading hell struck.

I was struck by how they are all in a sense right, only incompatible, and so the clash is inevitable. It saddened me.

That's what I'm aiming for, here. There's a very logical reason for people to react and think as they do - not necessarily pretty, and the more so (and quite unambiguously so, imo) the farther up the food chain we go, but the different players are all acting out a clash that is built into the nature of the system they (are coming to) live under.

In terms of expansion, I just did a revamp and added, like, a zillion notes. It's not direct fictional expansion, but it's... longer.

Especially perhaps in the idea of the alliance of the drughu and the descendants of the Haladin still surviving at this point, but not only in that.My ability to write primarily hunter-gatherer societies is, um, not very good. But it was something that struck me, that the Haladin, in addition to being the Edain with a high percentage of

[hhimring]

The additional material you have uncovered and incorporated is fascinating.
I have to confess to a "but". I'm not entirely comfortable with the way Sauron has dwindled into a mere excuse and in fact been relegated to the Notes. In terms of Middle-earth, Sauron is, after all, real. Veantur didn't know about him at all, Aldarion and Gil-galad didn't even know his name yet--but he was in fact beginning to move, as Gil-galad suspected. I understand why you don't want him in there but...

[dwimordene_2011]

Veantur didn't know about him at all, Aldarion and Gil-galad didn't even know his name yet

Exactly. That was what struck me: the Numenoreans oppressed a lot of people by raping their lands for natural resources without Sauron serving as a motivating factor. My other, meta-. point, which perhaps speaks to your more fundamental "But you're eliding Sauron for a motivated reason" point, was simply that we never talk about class in this fandom. We never talk about the forces that tend to develop and maintain international empires and no one makes an issue of this omission. It's like M-e has no political economy, M-e needs no political economy

[hhimring]

Well, yes, guilty as charged, I confess.

I have seen a number of hints thrown out about class and economy in writings about the First Age, but I don't think that they ever amount to a full political economy. Certainly nothing in my stories does, even remotely so.

But your own story was about political economy even before you revised it, wasn't it?

I'd be interested to see what you say about Gil-galad and about Sauron, if you decide to continue this line of thinking about the Second Age.

[dwimordene_2011]

I have seen a number of hints thrown out about class and economy in writings about the First Age, but I don't think that they ever amount to a full political economy.

That sounds right to me - it matches what I've seen as well. We're not in an environment that encourages us to learn how to depict class conflict as anything but the result of personal moral flaws of a couple of actors.

But your own story was about political economy even before you revised it, wasn't it?

Oh yes, it was always about that. I just didn't have time to put all the notes in, and then revisiting texts for the notes led to further revisions, but I wanted this to be about political economy and class conflict from the beginning.

I'd be interested to see what you say about Gil-galad and about Sauron, if you decide to continue this line of thinking about the Second Age

Working on it. We'll see if I can get a complete draft today...