Atalantë by Dwimordene

[dwimordene_2011]

Title: Atalantë
Author: Dwimordene
Summary: Always read between the lines.
Characters: Aldarion, the Guild of Venturers, OCs, political economy
Disclaimer: Fiction. Not JRRT/PJ/related to either. Broke. Please don’t sue. Notes to come later, most likely. Now with 60% more notes than actual text (by page count)!

Comments

[dwimordene_2011]

Veantur didn't know about him at all, Aldarion and Gil-galad didn't even know his name yet

Exactly. That was what struck me: the Numenoreans oppressed a lot of people by raping their lands for natural resources without Sauron serving as a motivating factor. My other, meta-. point, which perhaps speaks to your more fundamental "But you're eliding Sauron for a motivated reason" point, was simply that we never talk about class in this fandom. We never talk about the forces that tend to develop and maintain international empires and no one makes an issue of this omission. It's like M-e has no political economy, M-e needs no political economy.

But with regard to Sauron, one thing reading with that political economic lens did for me was to really highlight that a pressing question vis-a-vis our Second Age Dark Lord, is: who *is* Sauron in the Second Age? What kind of force is he in M-e, as an imperial power? What's the material basis for his control of the societies he rules?

I don't think I was in a position to answer that question, given that Aldarion doesn't have a very clear idea of who his rival is at this point in fictional time, but if ever I can come back to Sauron and Numenor, under the paradigm I'm using, I would say that while Sauron *does* act out of personal hatred of Numenor, he's not a mono-motivational being, and he would've behaved similarly toward any rising power that threatened his hold and growing domination in Middle-earth, the alternative being what it is.

As for Gil-galad - I'm fascinated by his role in all this. I was just thinking earlier today that I should write some kind of coda that would incorporate Gil-galad into all this mess. That might give an indirect look at Sauron, but it's all very vague in my mind at just this moment.

[hhimring]

Well, yes, guilty as charged, I confess.

I have seen a number of hints thrown out about class and economy in writings about the First Age, but I don't think that they ever amount to a full political economy. Certainly nothing in my stories does, even remotely so.

But your own story was about political economy even before you revised it, wasn't it?

I'd be interested to see what you say about Gil-galad and about Sauron, if you decide to continue this line of thinking about the Second Age.

[dwimordene_2011]

I have seen a number of hints thrown out about class and economy in writings about the First Age, but I don't think that they ever amount to a full political economy.

That sounds right to me - it matches what I've seen as well. We're not in an environment that encourages us to learn how to depict class conflict as anything but the result of personal moral flaws of a couple of actors.

But your own story was about political economy even before you revised it, wasn't it?

Oh yes, it was always about that. I just didn't have time to put all the notes in, and then revisiting texts for the notes led to further revisions, but I wanted this to be about political economy and class conflict from the beginning.

I'd be interested to see what you say about Gil-galad and about Sauron, if you decide to continue this line of thinking about the Second Age

Working on it. We'll see if I can get a complete draft today...

[hhimring]

I must admit that the thought has crossed my mind that any attempt to be fully realistic about Beleriandic economy might lead to all the elves starving to death even before Morgoth could kill or enslave them. MissingIslands has a fic in which the Feanorians committed the Kinslayings to get food and the Silmarils were just an excuse--but I'm by no means clear on how Doriath could have been economically viable either!
In the Second Age, you have more to work with, it seems to me.

[dwimordene_2011]

MissingIslands has a fic in which the Feanorians committed the Kinslayings to get food and the Silmarils were just an excuse

Ha, that's awesome!

but I'm by no means clear on how Doriath could have been economically viable either!

Pre-capitalist economies are often also class-based, but they do function differently. Doriath, I don't know very well, but I'd guess the majority of the Sindar were farmers, or else that hunting in the forest was the major source of food, with a smaller agricultural base.

Thanks for mentioning MissingIslands' fic, I'll have to go look for that.

[hhimring]

There were two pieces using this idea, I think, but she posted only one to SWG and I'm not sure I can find the other one again, as I failed to bookmark it.
She's Aerlinn on SWG.
http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/archive/home/viewstory.php?sid=1689