I also love it that while Killian IS a terrorist, he's using the Mandarin to hide *accidental* explosions. EVERYTHING is a lie, everything is a sham. And then it just happened that Killian could get to the president and be an actual terrorism because people was buying his bullshit. And we-as-a-society fall for it because we live in fear. It's just brilliant, really.
And YES, Pepper is the one to kill Obie in IM1, this is the second time she saves the day. One thing I loooooove about how she finished Killian is that Extremis does not make her a sociopathic show-off like it did with Killian, and Savin, and the crazy lady in Tennessee. Pepper deals with the suit attacking her and with Killian with 3 or 4 moves, and that's it. Because this is who she is -- she's the person who solves problems.
The fact that Tony was talking to Bruce instead of just narrating his own life is THE BEST THING, yes. I kinda love that the scene doesn't set up anything other than Tony and Bruce are BFF. :D
Ooh, excellent analysis, Tissa! The friend that I went to see IM3 with remarked "Like the last Batman movie should have been called "Bruce Wayne", this should have been called "Tony Stark" because he's hardly in the Iron Man suit." and I was all "but that's the point! He has to learn that it's not just the suit that makes him Iron Man! It's a JOURNEY." :) And for me, it's this journey of self (through all three IM movies, but this one in particular), that keeps me interested. It's his struggles of balancing self-interest with the needs of society, of balancing the escape that technology offers with human interaction that I find relate-able
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My biggest fear before I saw the movie was that all promo material was boasting the 40+ different suits, and that the movie would turn into Transformers -- all machines and no human interaction. And then we get THE STORYLINE about Tony being HUMAN, and I swear the first time I watched it, I *cried* when I realized this is what the movie was about.
And we, the audience, have to get to that understanding, just like Tony does, but so does Pepper. I mean something is REALLY OFF if Pepper Potts doesn't understand Tony Stark.OMG this. It's obvious Pepper knew there was something wrong with Tony, and she does know him past the genius billionaire playboy philanthropist facade, but he was also keeping her in the dark about HOW MANY suits he had built [I mean, she asks him if the Mark 42 is the Mark FIFTEEN]. So of course she thought he was distracted by playing with toys -- maybe she was even resenting the suits a bit -- but really, she had NO IDEA how much more complicated it was, because he wasn't letting her in. And the process of dealing
( ... )
I think the thing that makes the Mandarin being fake such a brilliant twist is that up until the gotcha! scene, we-the-audience maybe feel a little uncomfortable by his existence. Why is he such a bad cliché? Aren't we past the stereotyping, Hollywood? And why didn't you hire a Chinese actor to play a Chinese character? Why hire Ben Kingsley, an actor of Indian descent? Are we back to putting every non-caucasian actor in the same othering category and making it OK to give them whatever heritage a movie needs by yellow-facing him?Particularly juxtaposed against the fact that the coming attractions--at my theater, at least--featured a preview of the Lone Ranger remake. With Johnny Depp playing Tonto
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I love that this movie gave you thinky thoughts! One thing that it's interesting about this story is it makes people think, because the movie really does show and not tell. I have a feeling filmschool professors everywhere will use this script as an example of that. And I also like that Marvel pretty much said fuck it and made this movie a true sequel to the IMs and The Avengers, but they do not spend much time at all explaining things. If you haven't seen the previous movies, it's your problem, they're not giving you recaps.
I feel like we got to see the real Tony this time, with all his veneer stripped away. And yes he's still rich and brilliant and cocky and a smart-ass, but now he's basically wrestling with PTSD and he's having to face all these inner vulnerabilities for the first time.
YES, THIS, so much. It's not at all a new premise, I mean, it's a dude facing his demons, but I truly love it that Tony has to save himself FROM himself so that he can save everyone else in this.
Oh, I do love it when other people are all smart about stuff like this and write out character meta so I don't have to tax my brain thinking it through myself.
I think one of my favorite things about this movie (and there are plenty of things to choose from!) is how much I love Tony. I mean, I've always loved Tony as a character, because he's bold and brash and fun and just generally a good time. But Tony the person? He's kind of a dick most of the time. It was really refreshing to get to the heart of him in this movie and learn to love him in all his fucked-upedness, without sacrificing one iota of characterization.
Hee. I actually tried being lazy and not writing this, but then I couldn't get the movie out of my head, and then suddenly I had 5 pages of handwritten notes.
I was talking to one of my friends after we watched the movie that up until The Avengers, I was kinda thinking this whole universe was gearing towards the Marvel Civil War. But now I don't see how they can go there anymore. The thing about Tony in Civil War is that he's basically a fascist dick who thinks there should be a super-hero public register and no one should have secret identities SOLELY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE, but this Tony in IM3? The one who has to confront his own humanity to realize it's BECAUSE he's a man that he can be a hero? I honestly cannot see this Tony become the douche who wants to unmask all heroes anymore.
I hope to get the Tony/Pepper stuff posted by tomorrow. Fingers crossed!
Hi hi hi hi. I'm still thinking about this movie. I haven't had a chance to see it again yet, and I really need to. I have a lot of half-formed thoughts about how this movie fits into the part of Tony's story that's about learning to play well with others. I don't know that he's gotten any better at it, but it certainly feels like he's less averse to help from others, even if he still can't ask for it
( ... )
Did you read the Prelude to IM3 comics I posted? They might answer A LOT for you re: Tony's relationship with Rhodey, even more so than IM2, even.
I've been thinking about why Rhodey is the only one responsible to save the president, and Tony pretty much doesn't care about that. When they're still in the speed boat, Rhodey says something along the lines of "you can't save both the president and Pepper", so I'm kinda fanwanking it at them deciding that Rhodey got the president and Tony got Pepper.
But I do think Tony's still really bad at playing with others. I mean, he built 42 suits and NONE of them worked for Rhodey? And he didn't talk to Pepper about all of his crap until she actively got pissed at him. He might play better with others now when he needs to, but yeah, I can see how the building of the several suits fits into his loner persona, and his need to be able to provide himself with his own back-up.
Also, you should rec me some of your favorite fics for this 'verse, because I haven't read anything in a really long time. :
I didn't read the prelude! I should do that. I did kind of wish IM3 hadn't glossed over Tony&Rhodey so much, even though I'd prefer that than glossing over Tony/Pepper. But there was like an entire hour there where we didn't check in with Rhodey at all, and that was weird
( ... )
A billion years late, but thanks for the fic recs, I shall read them all, and stalk your delicious as well. :) And I like Steve, so I don't think it's a problem that he's in all the fics. :)
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And YES, Pepper is the one to kill Obie in IM1, this is the second time she saves the day. One thing I loooooove about how she finished Killian is that Extremis does not make her a sociopathic show-off like it did with Killian, and Savin, and the crazy lady in Tennessee. Pepper deals with the suit attacking her and with Killian with 3 or 4 moves, and that's it. Because this is who she is -- she's the person who solves problems.
The fact that Tony was talking to Bruce instead of just narrating his own life is THE BEST THING, yes. I kinda love that the scene doesn't set up anything other than Tony and Bruce are BFF. :D
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And we, the audience, have to get to that understanding, just like Tony does, but so does Pepper. I mean something is REALLY OFF if Pepper Potts doesn't understand Tony Stark.OMG this. It's obvious Pepper knew there was something wrong with Tony, and she does know him past the genius billionaire playboy philanthropist facade, but he was also keeping her in the dark about HOW MANY suits he had built [I mean, she asks him if the Mark 42 is the Mark FIFTEEN]. So of course she thought he was distracted by playing with toys -- maybe she was even resenting the suits a bit -- but really, she had NO IDEA how much more complicated it was, because he wasn't letting her in. And the process of dealing ( ... )
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I love that this movie gave you thinky thoughts! One thing that it's interesting about this story is it makes people think, because the movie really does show and not tell. I have a feeling filmschool professors everywhere will use this script as an example of that. And I also like that Marvel pretty much said fuck it and made this movie a true sequel to the IMs and The Avengers, but they do not spend much time at all explaining things. If you haven't seen the previous movies, it's your problem, they're not giving you recaps.
I feel like we got to see the real Tony this time, with all his veneer stripped away. And yes he's still rich and brilliant and cocky and a smart-ass, but now he's basically wrestling with PTSD and he's having to face all these inner vulnerabilities for the first time.
YES, THIS, so much. It's not at all a new premise, I mean, it's a dude facing his demons, but I truly love it that Tony has to save himself FROM himself so that he can save everyone else in this.
but ( ... )
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I think one of my favorite things about this movie (and there are plenty of things to choose from!) is how much I love Tony. I mean, I've always loved Tony as a character, because he's bold and brash and fun and just generally a good time. But Tony the person? He's kind of a dick most of the time. It was really refreshing to get to the heart of him in this movie and learn to love him in all his fucked-upedness, without sacrificing one iota of characterization.
Can't wait for the Tony/Pepper meta!
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I was talking to one of my friends after we watched the movie that up until The Avengers, I was kinda thinking this whole universe was gearing towards the Marvel Civil War. But now I don't see how they can go there anymore. The thing about Tony in Civil War is that he's basically a fascist dick who thinks there should be a super-hero public register and no one should have secret identities SOLELY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE, but this Tony in IM3? The one who has to confront his own humanity to realize it's BECAUSE he's a man that he can be a hero? I honestly cannot see this Tony become the douche who wants to unmask all heroes anymore.
I hope to get the Tony/Pepper stuff posted by tomorrow. Fingers crossed!
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I've been thinking about why Rhodey is the only one responsible to save the president, and Tony pretty much doesn't care about that. When they're still in the speed boat, Rhodey says something along the lines of "you can't save both the president and Pepper", so I'm kinda fanwanking it at them deciding that Rhodey got the president and Tony got Pepper.
But I do think Tony's still really bad at playing with others. I mean, he built 42 suits and NONE of them worked for Rhodey? And he didn't talk to Pepper about all of his crap until she actively got pissed at him. He might play better with others now when he needs to, but yeah, I can see how the building of the several suits fits into his loner persona, and his need to be able to provide himself with his own back-up.
Also, you should rec me some of your favorite fics for this 'verse, because I haven't read anything in a really long time. :
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