Hi hi hi hi. I'm still thinking about this movie. I haven't had a chance to see it again yet, and I really need to. I have a lot of half-formed thoughts about how this movie fits into the part of Tony's story that's about learning to play well with others. I don't know that he's gotten any better at it, but it certainly feels like he's less averse to help from others, even if he still can't ask for it.
I'm really kind of fascinated by his suit building (and the subsequent destruction of the suits) in that regard. He was dragged kicking and screaming (or the Tony Stark version of kicking and screaming) into SHIELD and the Avengers against his natural instincts, and by the end of that movie he seems to have come around to the advantages to having a team to back him up, and to having someone else call the shots. How much of the PTSD-fueled suit building is about being afraid on some level of not having that back up, of having to go back to being a one-man army? Of not being able to ask for help?
He seems much more willing to accept help, though. Obviously Pepper saves the day, but I feel like he was extra resistant to Rhodey as War Machine pre-Avengers, and that doesn't seem to be a thing in this one at all. (I have only seen IM2 twice. I feel like I have to watch it again for the Tony meta, but ahhhhh don't wanna.) I want to watch IM3 again with an eye to Tony's interactions with Rhodey, especially during the battle scenes. I still find it kind of hilariously off-putting the way he leaves Rhodey to sort of fend for himself once all the suits show up. But how much of leaving Rhodey to save the President on his own is Tony with his Pepper-blinders on, and how much is trusting Rhodey to pull off his part? He views Pepper as someone to be protected vs. Rhodey as someone who can take care of himself/share the burden of doing the protecting. I really can't decide if his actions in the battle are him not being able to think of anything but Pepper, or if him thinking of Rhodey as a teammate doing his own part allows Tony to focus on Pepper without distraction. Would he even care about the President if Rhodey weren't there, or does it just seem that he wouldn't BECAUSE Rhodey is there?
Anyway, like I said, half-formed. Maybe it's the fuckton of Avengers fic I've read in the last year, but I really am interested in how much of Steve's lectures and making friends with Bruce and Coulson dying informs his actions beyond the PTSD identity crisis of it all. I'm kind of ridiculously excited to see what fic writers do with it going forward. Because! The ending! Destroying his safety nets, literally throwing his heart out to sea, it's about Tony not just coming to terms with who he is, but deciding who he's going to be. What he wants to be. IT'S JUST SO BEAUTIFUL I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHO HE'S GOING TO BE NEXT WHY IS THIS ROOM SO DUSTY?
Did you read the Prelude to IM3 comics I posted? They might answer A LOT for you re: Tony's relationship with Rhodey, even more so than IM2, even.
I've been thinking about why Rhodey is the only one responsible to save the president, and Tony pretty much doesn't care about that. When they're still in the speed boat, Rhodey says something along the lines of "you can't save both the president and Pepper", so I'm kinda fanwanking it at them deciding that Rhodey got the president and Tony got Pepper.
But I do think Tony's still really bad at playing with others. I mean, he built 42 suits and NONE of them worked for Rhodey? And he didn't talk to Pepper about all of his crap until she actively got pissed at him. He might play better with others now when he needs to, but yeah, I can see how the building of the several suits fits into his loner persona, and his need to be able to provide himself with his own back-up.
Also, you should rec me some of your favorite fics for this 'verse, because I haven't read anything in a really long time. :)
I didn't read the prelude! I should do that. I did kind of wish IM3 hadn't glossed over Tony&Rhodey so much, even though I'd prefer that than glossing over Tony/Pepper. But there was like an entire hour there where we didn't check in with Rhodey at all, and that was weird.
It did seem like they were just straight up planning to have them split the saving duties, but they never actually said that. I wonder if it got cut, or if the filmmakers just decided we're smart enough to get it without them having to spell it out.
And yeah, one step forward, two steps back. I don't think it would work for the character or team dynamics in future movies if all the sudden Tony is ready to be a fall in line team player, but I like that this movie didn't gloss over that aspect of the many many things he's super fucked up about.
Fic recs I can do! It turns out I really really super love Steve Rogers, so if he's not your thing I might not be much help. Basically everything I read that's not Clint/Natasha is Steve-related in some way. I feel like these days my OTP is Steve/Team. :p
I have more (so many more), those were the easy ones to find. There's one where the team does a whole groundhog day type fighting doombots thing that I loved that I can't find at the moment. It is probably stuck in my delicious page somewhere. I've been really bad at saving stuff for easy finding lately, though.
A billion years late, but thanks for the fic recs, I shall read them all, and stalk your delicious as well. :) And I like Steve, so I don't think it's a problem that he's in all the fics. :)
I'm really kind of fascinated by his suit building (and the subsequent destruction of the suits) in that regard. He was dragged kicking and screaming (or the Tony Stark version of kicking and screaming) into SHIELD and the Avengers against his natural instincts, and by the end of that movie he seems to have come around to the advantages to having a team to back him up, and to having someone else call the shots. How much of the PTSD-fueled suit building is about being afraid on some level of not having that back up, of having to go back to being a one-man army? Of not being able to ask for help?
He seems much more willing to accept help, though. Obviously Pepper saves the day, but I feel like he was extra resistant to Rhodey as War Machine pre-Avengers, and that doesn't seem to be a thing in this one at all. (I have only seen IM2 twice. I feel like I have to watch it again for the Tony meta, but ahhhhh don't wanna.) I want to watch IM3 again with an eye to Tony's interactions with Rhodey, especially during the battle scenes. I still find it kind of hilariously off-putting the way he leaves Rhodey to sort of fend for himself once all the suits show up. But how much of leaving Rhodey to save the President on his own is Tony with his Pepper-blinders on, and how much is trusting Rhodey to pull off his part? He views Pepper as someone to be protected vs. Rhodey as someone who can take care of himself/share the burden of doing the protecting. I really can't decide if his actions in the battle are him not being able to think of anything but Pepper, or if him thinking of Rhodey as a teammate doing his own part allows Tony to focus on Pepper without distraction. Would he even care about the President if Rhodey weren't there, or does it just seem that he wouldn't BECAUSE Rhodey is there?
Anyway, like I said, half-formed. Maybe it's the fuckton of Avengers fic I've read in the last year, but I really am interested in how much of Steve's lectures and making friends with Bruce and Coulson dying informs his actions beyond the PTSD identity crisis of it all. I'm kind of ridiculously excited to see what fic writers do with it going forward. Because! The ending! Destroying his safety nets, literally throwing his heart out to sea, it's about Tony not just coming to terms with who he is, but deciding who he's going to be. What he wants to be. IT'S JUST SO BEAUTIFUL I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHO HE'S GOING TO BE NEXT WHY IS THIS ROOM SO DUSTY?
Reply
I've been thinking about why Rhodey is the only one responsible to save the president, and Tony pretty much doesn't care about that. When they're still in the speed boat, Rhodey says something along the lines of "you can't save both the president and Pepper", so I'm kinda fanwanking it at them deciding that Rhodey got the president and Tony got Pepper.
But I do think Tony's still really bad at playing with others. I mean, he built 42 suits and NONE of them worked for Rhodey? And he didn't talk to Pepper about all of his crap until she actively got pissed at him. He might play better with others now when he needs to, but yeah, I can see how the building of the several suits fits into his loner persona, and his need to be able to provide himself with his own back-up.
Also, you should rec me some of your favorite fics for this 'verse, because I haven't read anything in a really long time. :)
Reply
It did seem like they were just straight up planning to have them split the saving duties, but they never actually said that. I wonder if it got cut, or if the filmmakers just decided we're smart enough to get it without them having to spell it out.
And yeah, one step forward, two steps back. I don't think it would work for the character or team dynamics in future movies if all the sudden Tony is ready to be a fall in line team player, but I like that this movie didn't gloss over that aspect of the many many things he's super fucked up about.
Fic recs I can do! It turns out I really really super love Steve Rogers, so if he's not your thing I might not be much help. Basically everything I read that's not Clint/Natasha is Steve-related in some way. I feel like these days my OTP is Steve/Team. :p
If you haven't read this one you really really need to: It's Steve, Tony, and Dummy on a cross country road trip. And it is fantastic.
I also love:
The Annual Stark Family Fourth of July Celebration
Imprint
Culture and Other Balls of Twine
Brain, Tongue, and Heart which does some 'shippy things I'm not super into, but Clint&Natasha&Steve play pirates in the woods and complain about Stark Tech and it is fairly adorable.
I have more (so many more), those were the easy ones to find. There's one where the team does a whole groundhog day type fighting doombots thing that I loved that I can't find at the moment. It is probably stuck in my delicious page somewhere. I've been really bad at saving stuff for easy finding lately, though.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment