As far as I know, Moffat's not going anywhere. If he is planning to step down as showrunner (and he very well could be), it won't be until the upcoming season is over.
great review. hit the nail on the head on a lot of it.
the whole morality thing regarding the daleks and the silence and all of that? yeah, that supports a great deal the concept you have that sometimes the characters aren't real characters, they're just concepts. The lack of dealing with the Doctor's morality of that issue makes it almost video-gameish - plating a FPS and gunning down nameless foes because you know they aren't real, you're not killing people, you're just getting rid of obstacles that pretend to be representations of sentient beings in order to reach whatever goal is your goal.
The Daleks' pressure on Gallifrey feels like that. The solution and the solution working feels more like "achievement unlocked", you killed this Boss Stage, now move on to the next one.
I've had this issue ever since it was revealed that the war had been against the Daleks. TARDISes weren't just indestructible; the outside of them were merely a shell. Daleks; no matter how sophisticated and powerful they've become (and I have some issues with that too), should not have been able to even touch the Time Lords. The only thing that should be able to touch them are the Elder races; like the Gods of Ragnarok. I think one of these were mentioned in the Shakespeare Code from memory; but 10 isn't really one of my favorite doctors so I don't rewatch his episodes very often.
If 4 Daleks can really wipe out a cyber-army (and I have problems with this to be honest; in my personal canon it's because they weren't real Cybermen - they were the alternate world versions; not Mondasian Cybermen), then one timelord could just as easily wipe out the Daleks.
Interesting points, but I do disagree with you on a couple, particularly the one that Moffat's pretty much erased what RTD did. He didn't, really, just added some things and tweaked others. Let me explain what I mean. First, in terms of erasing the Doctor's guilt over what he did. That's certainly true in the case of Eleven, but not Ten, Doctor 8.5 (e.g. John Hurt's doctor), or Nine. It's pretty much been established that all the Doctors in a multi-Doctor story but one, the current, and therefore, oldest, incarnation, forget what they experience when the adventure is over. Therefore, Doctor 8.5, Nine, and Ten will finish out the rest of their lives still believing they killed the Time Lords and destroyed Gallifrey.
Now, regarding the events of "The End Of Time" and the Time Lock. If you remember, the General told the other members of the War Council that the High Council had come up with a plan of its own, but it had failed. That, to me, implied that the events of TEOT took place at either the same time as the ones in DOTD, or
( ... )
Thanks for the explanation of how DotD fits in Ten's timeline regarding EoT. I watched the entire EoT last weekend trying to figure it out. What I missed was the link from DotD regarding the High Council's failed plan.
Although previous versions of the Doctor forget about DotD events, we do not. I pity the poor people who get all this spoilt before they've had a chance to watch Nine and Ten's run. "Oh, poor Doctor, doesn't know his planet's in a time bubble." That was not the kind of pity we were meant to feel for him.
My interests really don't lie in untangling the details of multi-season continuity, so I won't fight hard for my position. (I was actually going to refer you to greenpear's post on the subject, but I see you've participated in that conversation already, so it won't be anything new to you.
It's pretty much been established that all the Doctors in a multi-Doctor story but one, the current, and therefore, oldest, incarnation, forget what they experience when the adventure is over.
But unless I'm mistaken, here the Doctors' own timeline has been changed. The War Doctor didn't destroy Gallifrey, he saved it. He doesn't remember the enounter with his successor incarnations, fair enough; but why would he have a false memory of destorying (typo - but I like it, so leaving it be!) the Time Lords when that didn't happen?
ETA:
This isn't exactly a water-tight theory, I admit, as it's based mostly on conjecture and our fellow fans filling in the blanks, as it were, but it makes sense and seems like as good an explanation as any to me.And there's my
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I agree mainly; but disagree that it rends moot the RTD era.
I think I still prefer the sometimes apparent brutalness of the Smith Doctor than Tennant's perpetual insistence on giving everyone a second chance. (Of course, it can be argued this would work better if it was the -next- Doctor who was this way; as he would remember that sometimes killing is the best way.)
I don't think Moffatt's leaving soon; maybe at the end of Season 8. I think out of the -current- writers; Gatiss or maybe Whithouse are the likeliest candidates. Gatiss if, like RTD did, Moffatt chooses a successor. Whithouse is probably more likely if it's a BBC appointment; but I suspect a BBC appointment might come from someone not currently working on the series, to genuinely give it a new image.
I don't think Ten gave people second chances. In fact in TCI, his first post-regneration episode, he explicitly stated 'no second chances, I'm that kind of a man' after killing the leader of the invading alien army. But he did give people a chance to do the right thing. Brutal killing may get the job done, but it's not what a doctor is supposed to do. A doctor is supposed to heal, to fix what's broken. A doctor is supposed to make people better
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It's very interesting that Moffat puts such emphasis on the meaning of that title, but generally negates its most basic meaning.
In the Ninth and Tenth Doctor's eras it was a moral conundrum whether to kill others or change history. Whether Ten (or Nine) actually ended up doing it or not, the question was always there. The stakes were always real. The enemies weren't just alien monsters you could kill and then high five your companions for doing it.
Thank you. That's about what I wish I'd said in reply to armchairdm.
...but I did enjoy some aspects of it such as John Hurt ribbing 10/11, the visuals of Gallifrey (I'm a sucker for alien world landscapes) and felt the end was decent by bringing back the Time lords.
I kind of regret that I couldn't/didn't/wouldn't make room to talk more about the good stuff in my review, but I wanted to stay focused on structure and morality.
That said, I thought a lot of the dialogue was the best Moffat's done since ... probably "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances". The War Doctor's snark was genuinely funny and - though it doubled as call-backs to previous multi-Doctor specials and other nostalgic things - it made complete sense within the story.
I thought the visuals weren't bad (but I disliked how much the Time War looked like a representation of World War I) and I'm ambivalent about the (sort of) full return of the Time Lords.
I agree with you The war did seem very low tech. For some reason I never thought the Time War would be well... a war.... At least not a war that is so recognizable and earth-like. I mean if you are using time itself as a weapon it shouldn't just look like tanks, trenches, and guns. Even if they are 'laser' guns and 'air' trenches. I wish they could have expounded on the various things Ten mentioned in TEoT like the Never-weres and the nightmare child. Those things sounded interesting
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If Moffat is packing it in, I don't have nearly enough information to even hazard a guess as to who might replace him.
Because of what he did with Sandman, I kind of fantasize about Neil Gaiman doing, but I know it is nothing but a fantasy.
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the whole morality thing regarding the daleks and the silence and all of that? yeah, that supports a great deal the concept you have that sometimes the characters aren't real characters, they're just concepts. The lack of dealing with the Doctor's morality of that issue makes it almost video-gameish - plating a FPS and gunning down nameless foes because you know they aren't real, you're not killing people, you're just getting rid of obstacles that pretend to be representations of sentient beings in order to reach whatever goal is your goal.
The Daleks' pressure on Gallifrey feels like that. The solution and the solution working feels more like "achievement unlocked", you killed this Boss Stage, now move on to the next one.
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If 4 Daleks can really wipe out a cyber-army (and I have problems with this to be honest; in my personal canon it's because they weren't real Cybermen - they were the alternate world versions; not Mondasian Cybermen), then one timelord could just as easily wipe out the Daleks.
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Now, regarding the events of "The End Of Time" and the Time Lock. If you remember, the General told the other members of the War Council that the High Council had come up with a plan of its own, but it had failed. That, to me, implied that the events of TEOT took place at either the same time as the ones in DOTD, or ( ... )
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Although previous versions of the Doctor forget about DotD events, we do not. I pity the poor people who get all this spoilt before they've had a chance to watch Nine and Ten's run. "Oh, poor Doctor, doesn't know his planet's in a time bubble." That was not the kind of pity we were meant to feel for him.
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It's pretty much been established that all the Doctors in a multi-Doctor story but one, the current, and therefore, oldest, incarnation, forget what they experience when the adventure is over.
But unless I'm mistaken, here the Doctors' own timeline has been changed. The War Doctor didn't destroy Gallifrey, he saved it. He doesn't remember the enounter with his successor incarnations, fair enough; but why would he have a false memory of destorying (typo - but I like it, so leaving it be!) the Time Lords when that didn't happen?
ETA:
This isn't exactly a water-tight theory, I admit, as it's based mostly on conjecture and our fellow fans filling in the blanks, as it were, but it makes sense and seems like as good an explanation as any to me.And there's my ( ... )
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I think I still prefer the sometimes apparent brutalness of the Smith Doctor than Tennant's perpetual insistence on giving everyone a second chance. (Of course, it can be argued this would work better if it was the -next- Doctor who was this way; as he would remember that sometimes killing is the best way.)
I don't think Moffatt's leaving soon; maybe at the end of Season 8. I think out of the -current- writers; Gatiss or maybe Whithouse are the likeliest candidates. Gatiss if, like RTD did, Moffatt chooses a successor. Whithouse is probably more likely if it's a BBC appointment; but I suspect a BBC appointment might come from someone not currently working on the series, to genuinely give it a new image.
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I prefer second chances to a blood-thirsty psychopath who dances with glee when he turns others into mindless killers. Your mileage may vary.
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In the Ninth and Tenth Doctor's eras it was a moral conundrum whether to kill others or change history. Whether Ten (or Nine) actually ended up doing it or not, the question was always there. The stakes were always real. The enemies weren't just alien monsters you could kill and then high five your companions for doing it.
Thank you. That's about what I wish I'd said in reply to armchairdm.
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I kind of regret that I couldn't/didn't/wouldn't make room to talk more about the good stuff in my review, but I wanted to stay focused on structure and morality.
That said, I thought a lot of the dialogue was the best Moffat's done since ... probably "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances". The War Doctor's snark was genuinely funny and - though it doubled as call-backs to previous multi-Doctor specials and other nostalgic things - it made complete sense within the story.
I thought the visuals weren't bad (but I disliked how much the Time War looked like a representation of World War I) and I'm ambivalent about the (sort of) full return of the Time Lords.
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