Paying For It

[docbrite]

The sins of Amsterdam were still a recent surprise
And we were flying over Scandinavian skies ...Not much surprises me there anymore except rudeness: some tourists, of course, and the portion of the large expat community that seems to believe Amsterdam would be a much nicer place without all those uppity Dutch people. (This is seriously a thing.

Comments

[contentlove]

It seems very odd to me that something that's entirely legal between consenting adults should become bewilderingly criminalized if there is a monetary transaction involved. Other obvious forms of transaction (marriage, anyone?) not withstanding. Really, I think consenting adults ought to be able to do whatever they want with other consenting adults in the privacy of their own space. And it ain't nobody's business if I do, either ;)

[nicosian]

It was interesting talking to relatives while I was there. Their take on the drugs, red light, etc, was "yeah. its there. So?" I did find it fun to walk through the RLD a few times to grin at the jawdropped tourists

[docbrite]

Not being snarky, but why do you feel (if you do) that the RLD women are not in control of the situation?

[nicosian]

No, i DO feel they have more control.

( sorry, it's like, hellmouth hot here in TO tonight, apologies if I wasn't clear. Brain's melting, you see.)

[docbrite]

I understand. Wasn't sure I was reading you right, as you see.

[kwanboa]

The sex trade in Australia is decriminalized and regulated. Makes for interesting reading. There's a woman on my LJ list who seems to have lost the energy to do so, but she used to regale us all with tales of the brothels. How some johns paid her handsomely just to take her on trips with them...never touch her, just enjoy her company. Or the ongoing "no I am not barebacking ANYTHING, you loser, put on the condom or you don't get the blowjob" debate. Really amazing stuff and she is so empowered.

And then there is the sex surrogate issue for disabled people. Which I fully, fully agree with and believe that it is a good thing.

[docbrite]

And then there is the sex surrogate issue for disabled people. Which I fully, fully agree with and believe that it is a good thing.

So do I. This is an angle I hadn't really thought about.

[woolysw]

Unfortunately as long as we get crap like The John Next Door. in the MSM (which I ran across earlier today) I don't think the discussion (and the outcome) it will improve. I certainly agree with the issues regarding sexual slavery and sexual trafficking of women and children, but to try and discuss it by starting out equating someone who views porn more than once a month with someone who frequents a prostitute, and stating watching porn leads to BDSM which equates to physical abuse certainly, IMHO, does not advance the discussion.

I personally have walked the Amsterdam RLD several times and not been at all interested. Instead of lust or sexual energy all I got was a very dull, sterile business-like feel - say about what I get when I visit my CPA or lawyer. Not very enticing, IMHO.

[docbrite]

crap like The John Next Door

Ugh. I like (read: hate) how gay johns don't even exist until the third-to-last paragraph, and are then given a single aside. Because, you know, we fags NEVER EVER want hot, convenient sex without commitment.

'Sex buyers often prefer the license they have with prostitutes. “You’re the boss, the total boss,” said another john. “Even us normal guys want to say something and have it done no questions asked. No ‘I don’t feel like it.’ No ‘I’m tired.’ Unquestionable obedience. I mean that’s powerful. Power is like a drug.”'

I seriously wonder if this guy has really been with a prostitute. No, you don't get "unquestioning obedience." They set their own parameters and limits.

[poto_heart]

I find it odd, at the very least, that in the US it's not illegal to pay somebody to make pornography, but it is illegal to pay them for actual sex

[teaberryblue]

Yes, plenty of people are pressured, coerced, forced, and even sold into prostitution as it is, but at very least legal regulations give someone some recourse. If you feel you're being treated badly by, say, a porn photographer, you can do something about it, and even though you may be judged negatively by people, you're not going to get arrest, and you have a better chance of finding legal resources that are on your side. If you're a prostitute who is being treated badly, you have to worry that going to the authorities might get you in more trouble than anyone coercing or otherwise harming you.

[orthanc]

This exactly. There are definitely great swathes of prostitution in practice in the US that victimizes the women and men in question. But this is due largely in part to the tone of prostitution here, one of failure, shame, disgrace and crime, which doesn't allow a prostitute to take advantage of any of those piddly little things like the right not to get beaten by a pimp or stabbed by a serial killer.

[mastadge]

This also contributes to another problem: many incarcerated sex workers are not convicted on prostitution charges but instead on other charges, which allows us as a society to go on pretending that prostitution (or, more specifically, the way in which we as a society deal (or, often, fail to deal) with prostitution) is not a problem. We're locking people up without even the grace to acknowledge what we're actually locking them up for, which allows us to go on not thinking about why we should be locking people up for it