Street Cred; or, how to treat women well assuming you're already not a douche

[demotu]

Notes: I wrote this essay for to post to my RL circle of friends, despite reasons explained within as to why that's probably a bad idea, and I probably will when I find the guts to. In the meantime, I thought my journal friends might (a) find it interesting and (b) be willing to tell me if I said something utterly stupid. In other words, concrit

Comments

[jasmine_rosalee]

This is a really great essay - you highlight a lot of things which are totally an issue in society and should be addressed as issues for both males and females.

I really hope you show this to your friends because it truly is a wonderful and interesting read.

(Also, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences in Europe. They sounded horrible :( )

[demotu]

Thanks! The experiences in Europe were unnerving, but we pretty quickly realized that there was an unwritten rule which says never ever make eye contact with a strange man (not at all the case in Canada) and once we followed that things were okay. And we were together so there was strength in numbers! In other words, I am not traumatized by them at all, just enlightened as to how good it really is here.

There are definitely lessons here that go both ways, but I don't think (for my social circles, at least) you can reverse it entirely, because I definitely do know guys who like to be included in female-dominated conversations, and the girls in question are usually pretty thrilled with the guy who's trying!

[elixer_of_life]

I found this really interesting, and I can understand a lot of the issues you raised, although I can't personally relate - I went to an all girls high school and I don't have a lot of male friends, and the ones I do have aren't particularly close, so I'm not as aware of my behaviour around guys I'm trying to be friends with. But I am hugely interested in gender within society, so this essay is brilliant in terms of that.

I found the experiences in Europe interesting, because jasmine_rosalee and I spent six months in Europe last year as eightenn-year-old girls and I don't remember anything like that, except for a bit of 'ciao bella'-ing in Italy. I am sorry they happened to you, though :(

[demotu]

Thanks, I'm glad you found it interesting despite it not being your environment! My mum and sister are in nursing so similarly don't experience this stuff often enough for it to register. I think the street cred thing pops up in many if not most male-female (non-dating stuff) interactions, but it only really came together for me because it's such a dominant part of my life.

Yeah, Italian men were the most vocal about things, but none of these incidents occurred with them (well, the hostel admin was in Italy, but he was Brazilian, IIRC). I'm glad not everybody has these experiences, but considering we were only there for five weeks I was shocked at how many separate incidents we racked up, considering I'd never experienced this sort of thing in Canada - maybe we were just too friendly? (Yeah, there was sarcasm in that sentence!)

[elixer_of_life]

I have actually been thinking about this essay a lot since I read it, and thinking about my behaviour and my friends' behaviour around guys, and also about what Australian society is like in terms of this issue. I realised that when I interact with guys I don't know, I'm acting differently than to when I'm with girls I don't know, but I'm not sure if that's because I'm trying to prove something or if it's just the residual not used to being around guys thing.

And in terms of Australian society, there is definitely still a gender imbalance and Aussie guys can be total sexist arseholes, which makes me kind of envious of your nice Canadian young men! It's one of the things I hate about Australian society, to be honest. And it's possibly why I don't have that many guy friends!

[cathedral_junki]

This is a very interesting essay. Thank you for posting it. Because it has helped bring some things into perspective. I do what you're talking about, in fact i don't even wait to be asked to prove my street cred, i generally assume that the onus is on me and that i always start off in the negative until i prove otherwise. I think part of my reasoning for this is that i have accepted the idea that as a rule women are (insert typical stereotype here) but /i'm/ not. So in a way your rant applies to women as well as men, because i do it to, not only to i offer up my own proof of street cred unasked, i expect it of other women as well. I'm sure there is my father, who doesn't really care for women or think much of us and the ever present fall back "society." which, while undoubtedly culpable, is also rather trite. Additionally, i am awed and impressed by your physics skills. I'm working on my second MA in the humanities I'll be heading for a PhD next, but, for the moment, anyway, i feel that my own work isn't as impressive or

[demotu]

You're welcome, and thanks for the comment! I definitely do the same sort of thing, where I immediately go about proving my street cred a lot of the time, rather than waiting to see if I'll need to, and censoring my words so I don't talk about feminist or even just female things too soon in a friendship, lest i jeopardize it. In fact I'd say I do it so blatantly that I get accepted into male circles fairly quickly, but not fairly naturally, if that makes any sense. Practice makes perfect, right

[lase2]

m going to start this with the statement of