(Untitled)

[_fauxsilence_]

the following was written in response to the questioning of a comment i made about how i find terms such as 'black' and 'white' to be racist. i thought the point of this community was to deconstruct such phrases, (debunking white) instead i find that they are flippantly tossed around in this community as acceptable terms

Comments

[holzman]

the idea behind 'race' is ridiculous. and that is manifest destiny, where there are those that are seen as closer to God (historically), and others who are seen more as animals. everybody is international or interraced. why do we even require terms to seperate and segregate cultures and backgrounds of people.

No matter how ridiculous, the idea exists, is in play today, and effects every person it touches. It won't go away if we pretend it's not there, it will only go away when it's been dismantled. To dismantle it, we have to be able to talk about it accurately and in detail. If we don't use terms like "white" and "black" to discuss the idea, the systems predicated on it, how they effect us and how to dismantle them, what words would you suggest instead?

[captain_brad]

this seems to be one of the biggest problems with discussing any systemic societal issue...language. Unfortunately, to get anything done it seems we must use the populary accepted vocabulary. I understand where she's coming from I think, but I also agree with you point.

[_fauxsilence_]

you're missing my point, "categorizing people based on the amount of melatonin in their skin. these are just two defining phenotyphic traits", is racist. using terms such as black and white is perpetuating the inherant cycle of 'race' and a popular and continuous favoured wording. to dismantle, one must understand, fully, deconstruct and reconstruct, apply critical theory, NOT mimic. question why these terms are here in the first place. question why this particular use of human classification is deemed necessary.

i am yellow

[yourmom]

and it's not th jaundice!

Re: i am yellow

[_fauxsilence_]

oh, are you suffering from liver failure?

[jamie_miller]

A lot of people self-identify with those words, and I for one am not going to be That Guy who tells a dark-skinned person of African ancestry that she can't call herself "black" because "that word is racist."

[kits_meow]

"I'd be very interested in seeing _fauxsilence_ address your question here, as Fauxsilence believes black and white to be racist terms. What new language is being proposed? "

And who is the panel that will approve or disprove the language???

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

[i_dreamed_i_was]

Because we can't let people choose for themselves, of course!

Re: Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

[kits_meow]

Mmm!

I myself never use "black", I don't like, it so I use "people of African Descent" - longer, but more accurate. But that doesn't mean I get upset when *other* people use "black". I also try not to use "white" but rather Caucasion, though, similarly, I don't get...well, you know the drill.

And, though I take every opportunity to let people know that "race" is a social construct, along with other social constructs like "gender" and "beauty", and so always use "ethnicty" in the place of race, the point is, in order to have a dialoge, with anyone, about any thing - you need to use language that both/all parties understand. If you're busy trying to change the language that makes *you* feel most comfortable, you're (IMO) focussing on the least important of the complexities and challenges of "race" discussions in the first place.

Also - I'd like to know who posted the long paragraph Fauxsilence is quoting here, and ask whether that original poster has been invited to join this conversation.

offending words

[winsey]

When I came to the UK and started reading about some of the anti-racist activism that has happened over the years, I was really interested to find out that many South Asian folks did and still do identify as black in the UK. In the late 70's and early 80's, there was a lot happening here. For one, the first (large-scale) generation of Asian and Caribbean children born in the UK were growning up and experiencing racism. Secondly, Thatcher's conservatism was the dominant political force

Re: offending words

[kits_meow]

I was aware of that - there is a little of that here too (at least in Toronto, Canada), in that many South Asians I know identify as either brown or black, but like the situation you describe in Britain, this has been also been going on here since the 80's. (Or at least, that was the first I came across a South Asian cab driver who said to me that he was "black like you" - needless to say a surprise, the first time I heard it

Re: offending words

[winsey]

I think in some ways, people of colour serves a similar purpose now to what black did back then. Sure it's burdened in that it can be perceived as 'in opposition' to the white norm but it recognises the power of solidarity between all the different people who suffer at the hands of white priviledge and domination.

I use the word white often to describe myself. Maybe to me, it represents being accountable for my own priviledge. I also feel it's important to use it as a way of avoiding the assumption that white is default for person, woman or whatever else. It's interesting because depite the fact that I'm an immigrant in the UK, white British people freely talk shit about immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers in my company. It's clear that despite our cultural and ethnic differences and my status as an immigrant, my whiteness is what matters to them. Besides using the word white, I wouldn't know how else to define these things.

Re: offending words

[elzia]

an interesting discussion might be how this paralells or contrasts with identification with straight and queer and the connotation of the words. I think it would have a very different dynamic.