(Untitled)

[_fauxsilence_]

the following was written in response to the questioning of a comment i made about how i find terms such as 'black' and 'white' to be racist. i thought the point of this community was to deconstruct such phrases, (debunking white) instead i find that they are flippantly tossed around in this community as acceptable terms

Comments

[holzman]

the idea behind 'race' is ridiculous. and that is manifest destiny, where there are those that are seen as closer to God (historically), and others who are seen more as animals. everybody is international or interraced. why do we even require terms to seperate and segregate cultures and backgrounds of people.

No matter how ridiculous, the idea exists, is in play today, and effects every person it touches. It won't go away if we pretend it's not there, it will only go away when it's been dismantled. To dismantle it, we have to be able to talk about it accurately and in detail. If we don't use terms like "white" and "black" to discuss the idea, the systems predicated on it, how they effect us and how to dismantle them, what words would you suggest instead?

[captain_brad]

this seems to be one of the biggest problems with discussing any systemic societal issue...language. Unfortunately, to get anything done it seems we must use the populary accepted vocabulary. I understand where she's coming from I think, but I also agree with you point.

[_fauxsilence_]

you're missing my point, "categorizing people based on the amount of melatonin in their skin. these are just two defining phenotyphic traits", is racist. using terms such as black and white is perpetuating the inherant cycle of 'race' and a popular and continuous favoured wording. to dismantle, one must understand, fully, deconstruct and reconstruct, apply critical theory, NOT mimic. question why these terms are here in the first place. question why this particular use of human classification is deemed necessary.

[_fauxsilence_]

"What you're saying seems to lead simply to a "we're all human, let's be colorblind!" line which, frankly, is NOT going to do shit all to change the world

[fetichista]

i think where i am and where i am from, as well as where i've been raised are terribly important to me as these factors define who i am. i learn more about my self by looking at my parents' past. i also learn more about my health-related issues, which brings me to my next point

[_fauxsilence_]

i'm really interested in checking out the author, thank you for the reccomendation. the issue here was not one of self identity, it was about categorizing people on their race and terminology. i really appreciate your response and this has given me a lot to think about. i like how this post is opening people up to discussion and debate.

[fetichista]

i'm sorry but i don't have it!
a friend of mine took first year feminism course with dr. kathryn trevenen at the university of ottawa and that's what she teaches.
i've recently, been directed towards this link though -
http://www.livejournal.com/users/richmackin/443733.html
i haven't read it yet... but i'm sure it's interesting.

sorry i couldn't help any more than that - good luck.

[dx3_1984]

actually, just to clarify, aimé césaire was from martinique and i don’t believe he was ever the congolese president (although his colleague léopold senghor was president of senegal for a time

[fetichista]

thanks! i knew i messed up the names...
i've only read exerpts and mostly poetry by césaire.
i'm quite surprised to hear that césaire is from martinique. and i think i got the idea that he was congolese because he wrote "une saison au congo"...
but thanks for adding what you added. i'll definitely be reading more...

[ayodele]

he was french carribean. filmaker euzhan palcy ("sugar cane alley") is related to him.

[krazyhippie]

What you're saying seems to lead simply to a "we're all human, let's be colorblind!" line which, frankly, is NOT going to do shit all to change the world.

That's precisely the feeling I got from this post. It reeked of white privilege to me, regardless of his/her intentions.

[ayodele]

That's precisely the feeling I got from this post. It reeked of white privilege to me, regardless of his/her intentions.

i do find it intereseting that for so many people the way to deal with people being oppressed by racism is to try to make racial and ethnic identification go away.

[krazyhippie]

Agreed. I get particularly frustrated when I hear people say that the REASON there is oppression is because people separate themselves. So POC shouldn't identify with their ethnicity, women shouldn't identify with an identity separate from men, etc. or else you're just ASKING to be treated inequally! That argument makes my head hurt. "If you didn't call yourself an African-American and just called yourself an American, you'd be treated like one!" *headdesk*

[ayodele]

So POC shouldn't identify with their ethnicity,

no unless for example we are about to start singing gospel music and dancing, in which case ethnic identification is a-ok.