Marietta's Real Crime

[mary_j_59]

In the discussion about "The Centaur and the Sneak", Dracasdiablo made a very interesting point. She stated that Marietta was a bad friend to Cho. After thinking about this for a while, I have to admit that I actually agree. The quotes that follow will, I hope, make clear why I think this.

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

I find it odd to have a lengthy discussion of Marietta's crime, when even in the adult world and even if there was never a change in circumstances and if everything had been specified etc Marietta would have at most committed a civil offense of breach of contract, whereas Hermione is the one who committed assault, which is indeed a criminal offense.

Marietta is guilty of being less strong than Neville. Hermione does not have the higher ground even in this regard, considering how she often folds if Harry disagrees with her.

[sunnyskywalker]

Even weirder because Hermione herself acknowledges permanently marking someone's skin as a problematic thing to do when she distinguishes between the Dark Mark and her coins. And the Dark Mark, while definitely creepy, is a voluntary permanent mark, which both parties know about in advance. I could totally understand the DA shunning her and calling her nasty names, or shooting Tripping Jinxes at her in the halls, or even having some sort of ink-based version of the "sneak" curse which wears off after a week or two. Not nice, or useful for prevention, but more on the scale you would expect for the offense, and the ink-sneak would probably still be enough to scare her so that she would reconsider talking further (since she wouldn't know what might happen next). They want punishment and vengeance? Fine, but there's options that don't involve scars

[mary_j_59]

Yes - as Oryx said above, her real crime is not being Neville. And I don't see how Hermione gets a pass for what she did in response. I hadn't - somehow - noticed before that she comes up with the snitch hex AFTER discussing how evil it is that Voldemort marks his servants' skins! Good point.

[condwiramurs]

One wonders if that's where she got the idea, says my cynical mind. I like Hermione, but she's ruthless.

[ladyhadhafang]

I definitely agree, sunny. Completely. :)

[condwiramurs]

Nice analysis, and I think you hit on a very important point

[mary_j_59]

Thanks, Condwiramurs. I agree with with you here, also. The lack of empathy Hermione displays in both these instances is appalling.

[lynn_waterfall]

Yes. This comes out more with our discussion of Umbridge (who obviously is at fault). I've been focusing on discussing Marietta, rather than Hermione, but this is an important point in any discussion of Hermione's behavior with her jinxed list.

[condwiramurs]

Yes, thanks. I tend to think about it in terms of an ethics of justice vs an ethics of revenge - and the HP books really IMHO come down on the side of an ethics of revenge. I ought to do a proper post on the subject, but time, arg.

[the_bitter_word]

I think both Cho and Marietta were bad friends to each other, in varying degrees, throughout the DA's existence. Neither seemed to be particularly concerned for the other in the actions they took. They didn't seem to be communicating in an upfront manner about their worries or real interests. But, like you say, they were human and these are things humans do, as is forgiveness. Over-the-top, one-sided, sneaky and pointless retribution, on the other hand, is a little disturbing. It just serves to reinforce the notion that some people should be shamed, some should be feared, and some get to make those decisions on behalf of everyone else. Magic is might

[sunnyskywalker]

They're reluctant even to tell about things the authority figures they don't like are doing wrong (unless it's Snape), which is weird. What if Harry had told another teacher - McGonagall or Flitwick, say - about Umbridge's blood quill instead of trying to hide it even from his friends? I mean, I think it's probably an accurate dynamic for a troubled, abused kid who's now run into a new abuser, but then, he isn't the only victim of the blood quill, and none of the other kids seem to tell either. What's up with that? Is the school culture so bad that kids expect to be physically injured by teachers as a matter of course, and that complaining will not get them any help and might get them in trouble? And more importantly, why doesn't the book ever address the issue in any way? Even Harry realized he could have called Sirius with the mirror, so why didn't anyone go, "Gee, maybe if we'd tried talking to McGonagall, Umbridge might have been publicly disgraced ages ago and we would have had a lot fewer problems, oops

[the_bitter_word]

Is the school culture so bad that kids expect to be physically injured by teachers as a matter of course, and that complaining will not get them any help and might get them in trouble?Actually, I wonder if teachers at Hogwarts encourage students to come to them with complaints no matter how devastating the subject matter. When Harry brings his dire concerns about about Snape to Hagrid and Dumbledore, he's brushed off as talking nonsense (which he is). Does he confide in other adults? He tells the Marauders some things, but their interest in having Harry like them makes them poor guides. He sees an ally in Fake Moody, so there's an unreliable adult there. He tries to tell Snape one thing, then loses confidence in him. Of course, Harry's not hated for his failed attempts to try to tell/get information from adults

[oryx_leucoryx]

I sometimes wonder what kind of messages these books send to young readers about right and wrong, might and cooperation. I've heard some not-so-good things from teachers, actually.

You have actual examples of students inspired by the HP books to questionable behavior? I'm interested to read about that.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Had she stood up to Cho and stayed away, or had she not signed the paper, she would have betrayed no one. For the sake of thoroughness, let's look at the following AU scenario

[mary_j_59]

That's the thing. This "loyalty to your peer group at all costs" that Brad is pushing in his defense of Hermione is not adult or ethical behavior, IMO.

Madeleine L'Engle (a far better writer than Rowling, IMHO, and another one who wrote far better women and girls), wrote a book called The Young Unicorns. A plot point in the book is a 17-year-old boy making a promise to someone he believes he has reason to trust. But - Dave doesn't have all the facts. When he does have them - when he sees what's really happening - he is faced with a choice. Will he break a promise, and, if so, why? Dave, btw, is a former gang member; some would call him a juvenile delinquent. He's got a better ethical sense than any of the trio.

[charlottehywd]

I concur. Hermione had no right to punish anybody in such a cruel and permanent way. Especially when she didn't tell them that there would be any retribution like that. I wonder if Marietta would have joined if she had known. Even if it wasn't technically illegal then, doesn't it seem a bit over the top for just a study group?