Possession of the Cloak

[terri_testing]

“His passion … was the work he had taken over from Illyan….

No. The work Haroche had taken away from Illyan.

Oh.

… I’m blind, blind, blind! Motive! What’s an elephant got to do around here, to advance and be recognized?” Miles Vorkosigan in Memory, by Lois McMaster Bujold

Comments

[madderbrad]

Wow, I love this observation:

So. Moments after agreeing with Harry that the Cloak couldn’t possibly have helped James or Lily, Albus contradicted this to tell Harry that the Cloak’s “true magic” is that it can be used to shield oneself and others simultaneously. I.e., that Lily maybe could have used it to sneak past Tom with Harry in her arms, had she been bold and cool-headed enough.

Excellent.

Mind you, these days I just like to collect Rowling errors - this makes #4,319 :-) - so I'd say this is another one of these. Because there's no way Rowling would have wanted us to think that Dumbledore deliberately placed the Potters in jeopardy like this, right?

Although - for whatever reason - he *did*. Thanks to your observation. All so Harry could have his nifty Cloak in book #1.

But Albus couldn’t risk Tom getting hold of the thing when he killed the Potters. Getting two of the three. Needing only to defeat the Deathstick’s master (which might be done by treachery or guile or chance; Tom didn’t have to be more powerful or

[oryx_leucoryx]

OTOH if Harry was somehow going to vanquish Voldemort, were 2 Hallows going to be in the hands of the Potters? Will it become a fight between Albus and James?

2 Hallows in the hands of James?

[terri_testing]

Well, now, you notice that didn't happen. James didn't have his Cloak when Tom came calling. So there was never a chance that James would stand over the enemy his son had vanquished, claim the ring (It is fair to me, though I buy it with great pain), and unite it with the Cloak

Re: 2 Hallows in the hands of James?

[oryx_leucoryx]

We don't know how closely the wizarding version of Merlin's biography follows our Arthurian legend, but Merlin's first act was to arrange for Arthur's conception. Which ties with Hwyla's speculation that the Prophecy was actually made before Harry and Neville were conceived.

Albus with Merlinesque aspirations? He must have seen himself as one step better than the original - being gay and celibate he was safe of the chance of being trapped in a tree by Nimue.

What was the reason given for Arthur's fostering? Because Uther was still alive.

[karentheunicorn]

With the whole Potters death I have often wondered this. We know Dumbledore seems willing to sacrifice people if he thinks its for the greater good.

So, why would he hesitate on letting Voldemort meet up with baby Harry if that eventually meant Voldemort would be defeated. Keeping the cloak not only seems selfish but in a certain way...if Voldie happened to go to the potters, so what, seems like Voldie and Baby Harry meeting might have been what DD wanted.

I know the zombie fans and even JKR herself would say NO, Dumbledore would not do that but to me DTCL writers/ and theorists have shown and pointed out many instances where Dumbledore willinly puts or allows Harry and others to be in mortal danger, or even be killed for the greater good.

So, why would James/Lily be any more special than the other people Dumbledore claims to care about.

[condwiramurs]

Does Dumbledore ever claim to actually care about them, even? He demands payment from Severus for protecting them, despite the fact that they are *his own fighters* who have already entrusted their lives to him. I highly doubt he would have qualms about sacrificing them if necessary.

Grieving over James and/or Lily

[terri_testing]

Severus, Minerva, and Hagrid all cry over (some of) the Potters' deaths.

Albus looked "grim" when he spoke to Severus, his eyes were "sparkling" and he "chuckled" when he saw Minerva. He "bowed his head" to confirm for Minerva the rumor that Lily and James were dead, patted her on the shoulder, and said "I know... I know" heavily.

When Hagrid bursts into noisy sobs, it's Minerva who comforts and shushes him.

So no, he doesn't especially make a pretense of caring strongly about his two pawns.

Re: Grieving over James and/or Lily

[sunnyskywalker]

It looks especially bad in contrast to McGonagall - who doesn't seem to have thought the Potters were the best thing since sliced bread (not that she disliked them, but she doesn't seem like she wants to commission a statue), but still is shocked and distressed that they were murdered. Like most people would be. Even Harry manages to find pity for Draco, whom he despises, and Dumbledore is twinkling after his own followers die?

[oryx_leucoryx]

I had long since given up my dream of uniting the Hallows

Hmm. Was this because he wasn't quite sure if the Potter family still had the cloak or because his Order wasn't that effective in getting the Stone from Tom? If we ignore Rowling's response from the Pottercast interview, but instead follow what Albus tells Harry in OOTP, at least the Potters and the Longbottoms had 3 direct encounters with Tom they survived before their respective sons were born. Does Albus' dream of uniting the Hallows explain why he needed a private army of people who do as he says without asking too many questions at a time when supposedly both he and the Ministry were united in the cause of fighting Tom? Was he using the trust of his most loyal supporters to promote his quest for the Hallow he knew to be in Tom's hands? Especially if he believed Tom was keeping it on him to use as needed.

[stasia]

When I read, "His tone was unbearably bitter.", I didn't think his bitterness had anything to do with his potential or lack of same to protect the Potters. He was just bitter than he had only two of the Hallows.

*sigh*

Stasia

[the_bitter_word]

This makes a lot of sense, and tracks Dumbledore's life-long obsession with the Hallows, which we are probably supposed to view as his tragic flaw, directly leading to his death as well as the deaths of his sister and Snape, and now, the disposable Potters! Pshaw - the Potter parents didn't listen to him about the Secret Keeper thing, anyway. His sister was an inconvenient burden and Snape was a mean Slytherin. No harm, no foul! Off to heaven Dumbledore goes.

Contrary to what Potter said in King's Cross, Dumbledore did kill when he could have avoided it, or rather, he let those under his command unknowingly sacrifice their lives for his hubris.