Writerly Non-Sex Kinks M-Type Thing

[dawn_felagund]

Taken from Oshun ...

Name five ‘non-sexual kinks’ you have as a reader/writer: that is, five writing techniques, themes, settings, or character types that really draw you into a story. (If they are different for you as a reader than as a writer, please name both!)

Comments

[heartofoshun]

Women without swords!I grew up in an environment of strong, opinionated, capable, and powerful women, who did not from a distance appear to be breaking boundaries. (Although my mother was the carpenter, electrician and plumber in our household, my dad did not know how to hold a hammer.) So I do understand how women shaped their environment in a world in which they not have the rights and resources we have today. I wish the word "kick ass" were not so widely used. But my mother and my grandmothers were formidable women. And its a class question too--men turned over their paychecks to the wife and mother of his kids! None of this middle-class stuff where the wife knows nothing about the family finances either! (My dad got an allowance and it wasn't much

[dawn_felagund]

I wish the word "kick ass" were not so widely used.

I prefer "badass" myself. ;) All kidding aside, I can hold my own physically, especially "for a girl"--I have picked up and physically relocated students much larger than me during fights--but I do not see that as the source of my strength.

In theory, I have no problem with a woman in a warrior/fighting role--I likewise adore Brienne's character, one of the only characters whose book chapters I actually look forward to, and she is marvelous on the show as well--but this rings very true to me:

It is much too cheap and easy to take a quasi-medieval world and put a sword or a bow in a female character's hand and say, 'Whew! Done and done! strong woman accomplished.'One of the reasons that I like Brienne's character so much is because, even though he made her very "kick-ass," GRRM also doesn't shy away from the implications of a woman in such a role in such a place as Westeros. She is a woman who can't win: She is mocked when she tries to be feminine, and she is mocked when she dons

[lindahoyland]

I very much agree about women without swords.

[dawn_felagund]

They're so much more interesting (and relatable, as a woman who tries to be nonviolent), imo! :)

[ladyelleth]

Women without swords is such a good trope, and definitely wins in terms of the realism department. This is one of the things I enjoyed very much about Game of Thrones, and just tonight I read a quote by Sophie Turner describing Sansa as quietly learning from her ordeals and outmatching her tormentors in the game, which is just as good an example as The Work of Small Hands is (still one of the fics that I keep aspiring to match in my own way someday).

I like women with swords as well - but when I write them, I try to make very sure that they face realistic consequences for their actions, too (especially talking Tolkien) - probably even harsher ones than if they'd assume power/influence through more supposedly non-threatening and female-coded roles (my Maitimë has very non-flattering things to say right now - not fit for print). Without a struggle for the right to wield a sword in the first place, that story is wishful thinking... which can be wonderful in the right mood, but not ultimately very satisfying, so your point still stands

[dawn_felagund]

Yes, I too like women with and without swords ... I just protest that the "with" version seems (in pop culture anyway) to be the default to satisfying the demand for stronger female characters. Speaking of GRRM, I just mentioned to Oshun up-thread that Brienne is an excellent example of a woman-with-sword that really works for me. (GRRM's writing generally makes me grit my teeth, but I look forward to Brienne's chapter and also love how she's been handled on the show.) She doesn't simply pick up a sword and own the world. That decision has consequences for her in a society with traditional female gender roles, and Brienne often feels to me like a character who just can't win. As a woman-with-sword, she is comfortable in her own skin ... and mocked. As a woman-trying-to-be-a-lady, she is uncomfortable ... and still mocked

[with_rainfall]

Word on #5. It's sadly common in YA to present your heroine either as this cardboard cutout pining for her True Love, or a badass Action Girl with an arsenal of tricks. I dunno if you've read or would like Tamora Pierce's Circle of Magic (Emelan) series, but her female characters are stupendous. Her Tortall books are great, too, but nearly every one of her protagonists can fight with weapons in that 'verse, which has problems of its own.

ETA: Also, while I'm at it, Emily Rodda, enough said.

[indy1776]

Eeeee! Circle of Magic! *ahem* That's is my favorite series by Pierce. (Dawn, the first few are geared toward middle school; The Will of the Empress (the last in-universe chronologically) is teetering on the edge of adult; and there's another book out recently that I haven't read yet that I expect to be more on the mature side of things due to focusing on war.)

But my favorite YA author is Diane Duane, who also writes well-rounded characters.

[with_rainfall]

Fair warning, a lot of us fans over at Goldenlake and other places like Goodreads weren't very happy with the way Battle Magic was handled, but if you're not ridiculously invested in the 'verse like I am, it might be okay, idk. Just... don't expect too much, that's all. :(

[indy1776]

I'm sorry to hear that. :( I'm not surprised, though, given I hated Melting Stones. When I read the sample available on the iBooks store and saw that it featured Evvy as a POV character, my interest in reading it went downhill.

It's just… I vastly prefer Emelan to Tortall. It feels more real to me. So hearing your warning definitely makes Battle Magic a find-in-the-library-first book, which I was leaning toward due to the above. Thank you.

[tehta]

5. I like something like this, too, except in my case I would call it "women without machismo." (I think I am pretty poorly read in contemporary fantasy, because I have never seen this cheap "woman with a sword" thing in print. I mean, Arya and Brienne do have their own struggles, and characters like Katniss Everdeen or Katherine from the Riverside books or Angua from Pratchett are not set up to be a straight-on match for physically powerful men, but are given some compensating skills that let them fight *some* men, and anyway their kickassedness comes more from their personalities than from these skills.)

[dawn_felagund]

I'm not well-read in contemporary fantasy myself. Most of my reading these days is either for grad school or as part of lesson planning. I'm counting the days till that alleviates somewhat

[tehta]

I completely agree about PJ, and movies in general (including the Hunger Games) romanticizing weaponry and fighting in general. I just have not seen this in books I have read.

And obviously I don't know how young girls in general perceive Katniss, but everyone I have spoken to admires her toughness and her genius for rebellion (and ability to attract hunky boys, sigh.) I don't see why it would be bad if she inspires some girls to try the bow, instead of inspiring them to, say, party every night, or backstab their friends, or rely on men for everything. If nothing else, archery requires discipline. I just don't see the problem.

I don't know. The idea that female protagonists are unrealistic or wrong if they have any exciting skill that is coded as "male" worries me a bit -- especially if it is a skill a woman could actually possess! Some women do want to do "male" activities, myself included.