I don't have many friends who aren't some form of atheist, agnostic, or pagan (or all of the above, depending on mood). Serious practitioners of the major religions don't seem to like me very much.
My contact with serious practitioners is also mostly limited to the incidental, i.e., coworkers. I can't see a friendship between myself and a religious zealot working out particularly well! :)
My position is simple--all religious references out of government.
I actually think Karl Marx stated my position on it most succinctly, even a bit poetically:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."
Sigmund Freud explained it rather well:
"The idea of God was not a lie but a device of the unconscious which needed to be decoded by psychology. A personal god was nothing more than an exalted father-figure: desire for such a deity sprang from infantile yearnings for a powerful, protective father, for justice and fairness and for life to go on forever. God is simply a projection of these desires, feared and worshipped by human beings out of an abiding sense of helplessness. Religion belonged to the infancy of the human race; it had been a necessary stage in the transition from childhood to maturity. It had promoted ethical values which were essential to society. Now that humanity had come of age, however, it should be left
( ... )
I believe in people, compassion, generosity, a whole number of different types of love, decency and simple kindness, making an effort not to cause harm to anyone else and altruism when faced with human suffering. I don't know why one needs gods for any of that?I agree, and I've always had a hard time understanding why this is thought to be inferior than arriving (supposedly) to the same point because a book or pastor told me to do so. I try to make all of the actions in my life motivated first by kindness and the desire to achieve peace--being human, I fuck that up occasionally ;)--and my decision to make my life's work what it is has come from ... well, a lifetime of contemplation. Of a thorough conviction that I have to live my life a certain way in order to be at peace with myself. I fail to see how that is in any way inferior to behaving in the same way because I am told to do so. I do wonder if that isn't part of the reason that so many so-called Christians do so poorly at following the teachings of Jesus: because they don't
( ... )
I was raised Anglican, and never saw the subtle discrimination against those who weren't at the time. I never saw my own prejudices in the matter at all. Then I grew up and converted to Buddhism (which can be either atheist or agnostic - I've been both) and raised my kids in that faith. Let me tell you: the second-hand education I got on the intolerance and prejudices of Christians was downright painful
( ... )
I'm sad to say that I didn't even feel a tickle of disbelief in the cannibals comment. It does not surprise me that many U.S. Christians are so ignorant and unafraid of admitting that, and that is sad. I admittedly feel unease in admitting that I practice Druidry because I know most people will immediately associate it will Devil worship and think I'm sacrificing goats in my backyard when, in reality, our seasonal ceremonies are little more than a form of thanksgiving and reflection on the changing seasons
( ... )
(Yes, my icon is unseasonal. But, hey, if it helps us all think of cooler weather . . . )
(And apologies in advance, this comment may well get cutting.)
Godless heathen ...
What comes to mind when you hear that?
Honestly? A particular type of elderly white Southern church lady, probably Methodist. Yes, I know that's a stereotype. On the other hand, I can't think of anyone else I know who actually uses the phrase non-ironically.
Do you remember back in 2000, when Joe Lieberman was running for Vice-President? For one brief, shining, glorious moment, the country was faced with the real possibility that the guy a heartbeat away from the Presidency would be an Orthodox Jew. And it had a quiet little conniption fit, telling stories about how Lieberman walks on Shabbat, and oh dear, what would he do if there was a national emergency on a Saturday, and wasn't he exotic and a load of other crap. Th only good thing about this was that the Trib published his wife Hadassah's goulash recipe, which I cut out and saved, and it is a very
( ... )
I hope you know by now that lengthy or passionate (or both!) comments never warrant apology here. ;)
what would he do if there was a national emergency on a Saturday
From my outsider's perspective, I'd rather have an Orthodox Jew exercising a religious observance on a Saturday than a born-again Christian using Biblical prophecy to govern foreign policy every day of the week. But what do I know, godless heathen that I am? ;)
I can't recall the term godless heathen bandied about in a non-ironic way, but I do hear the term heathen quite often used to describe all manner of unsavory sorts. A former coworker of mine at the WAU used to call two other coworkers that she disliked The Heathens. And my TA will sometimes say our students behave like heathens. She's not talking about when one asked me to bring him a bouquet of black-eyed Susans from my garden or when they share their food and money with others who have none. ;) I won't say the use of that term in that way is even hurtful to me, but it is annoying, mostly because it comes from
( ... )
I didn't know the Druid bit, but it doesn't surprise me.
Poll after poll shows that most U.S. citizens would accept a woman, a Jew, a Mormon, even a gay person or a Muslim, as President, but these same people would not accept an atheist.I'm skeptical about this. Given how one of the tactics used to undermine Obama's suitability as president was claiming he was a Muslim, I think a great many people who answered "Yes, I would accept a gay, Muslim, etc. as president" erm...lied
( ... )
Those numbers surprised me as well, but I think the poll was conducted in 1999. Probably most of the respondents didn't then know what Islam even was. ;)
I don't really know what to call exactly what I am now... Theist-leaning agnostic? With a smattering of apatheism?
This was me for many years. I would call myself a spiritual agnostic, in that I liked to think on spiritual questions but did not think that, as a human being, I could ever discover Truth-with-a-capital-T. I preferred to take my cues from nature as to how the world works, which is how I've come to narrow down the label I affix to myself to agnostic Druid. ;)
Probably most of the respondents didn't then know what Islam even was. ;)
Haha, could be! Or they stopped reading after "Jew" and thought "well, the 'right' answer is yes, so I better put that down or else I'll look prejudiced".
I liked to think on spiritual questions but did not think that, as a human being, I could ever discover Truth-with-a-capital-T.
That's me too. We as humans cannot possibly KNOW for a fact whether there is or is not a God (or gods).
Regarding "heathen", it's actually not a word I hear a lot... My boss used to call the horses "heathens!" when they were showing a bit of spirit, but that's all I can remember. There are worse things I can think of to be compared to than a spirited horse. But that's just me. ;)
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I actually think Karl Marx stated my position on it most succinctly, even a bit poetically:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."
Sigmund Freud explained it rather well:
"The idea of God was not a lie but a device of the unconscious which needed to be decoded by psychology. A personal god was nothing more than an exalted father-figure: desire for such a deity sprang from infantile yearnings for a powerful, protective father, for justice and fairness and for life to go on forever. God is simply a projection of these desires, feared and worshipped by human beings out of an abiding sense of helplessness. Religion belonged to the infancy of the human race; it had been a necessary stage in the transition from childhood to maturity. It had promoted ethical values which were essential to society. Now that humanity had come of age, however, it should be left ( ... )
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(And apologies in advance, this comment may well get cutting.)
Godless heathen ...
What comes to mind when you hear that?
Honestly? A particular type of elderly white Southern church lady, probably Methodist. Yes, I know that's a stereotype. On the other hand, I can't think of anyone else I know who actually uses the phrase non-ironically.
Do you remember back in 2000, when Joe Lieberman was running for Vice-President? For one brief, shining, glorious moment, the country was faced with the real possibility that the guy a heartbeat away from the Presidency would be an Orthodox Jew. And it had a quiet little conniption fit, telling stories about how Lieberman walks on Shabbat, and oh dear, what would he do if there was a national emergency on a Saturday, and wasn't he exotic and a load of other crap. Th only good thing about this was that the Trib published his wife Hadassah's goulash recipe, which I cut out and saved, and it is a very ( ... )
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what would he do if there was a national emergency on a Saturday
From my outsider's perspective, I'd rather have an Orthodox Jew exercising a religious observance on a Saturday than a born-again Christian using Biblical prophecy to govern foreign policy every day of the week. But what do I know, godless heathen that I am? ;)
I can't recall the term godless heathen bandied about in a non-ironic way, but I do hear the term heathen quite often used to describe all manner of unsavory sorts. A former coworker of mine at the WAU used to call two other coworkers that she disliked The Heathens. And my TA will sometimes say our students behave like heathens. She's not talking about when one asked me to bring him a bouquet of black-eyed Susans from my garden or when they share their food and money with others who have none. ;) I won't say the use of that term in that way is even hurtful to me, but it is annoying, mostly because it comes from ( ... )
Reply
Poll after poll shows that most U.S. citizens would accept a woman, a Jew, a Mormon, even a gay person or a Muslim, as President, but these same people would not accept an atheist.I'm skeptical about this. Given how one of the tactics used to undermine Obama's suitability as president was claiming he was a Muslim, I think a great many people who answered "Yes, I would accept a gay, Muslim, etc. as president" erm...lied ( ... )
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I don't really know what to call exactly what I am now... Theist-leaning agnostic? With a smattering of apatheism?
This was me for many years. I would call myself a spiritual agnostic, in that I liked to think on spiritual questions but did not think that, as a human being, I could ever discover Truth-with-a-capital-T. I preferred to take my cues from nature as to how the world works, which is how I've come to narrow down the label I affix to myself to agnostic Druid. ;)
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Haha, could be! Or they stopped reading after "Jew" and thought "well, the 'right' answer is yes, so I better put that down or else I'll look prejudiced".
I liked to think on spiritual questions but did not think that, as a human being, I could ever discover Truth-with-a-capital-T.
That's me too. We as humans cannot possibly KNOW for a fact whether there is or is not a God (or gods).
Regarding "heathen", it's actually not a word I hear a lot... My boss used to call the horses "heathens!" when they were showing a bit of spirit, but that's all I can remember. There are worse things I can think of to be compared to than a spirited horse. But that's just me. ;)
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