It has taken me many years to be openly Pagan, although I have been so all of my life. I still am well aware that I could be called upon to die for the difference in my faith from the mainstream religion. The last witchcraft laws were repealed in Britain just a little less than 60 years ago and many other nations will not tolerate pagans, or at least those who do not believe in the prevailing religious belief, at all. Am I willing to die for my beliefs, if necessary yes. And I would do it for the freedom of someone else to practice their faith. What I won't do willingly is die for the sake of mainstream religion imposing their beliefs and viewpoints on others who do not walk their road.
I did not know you were Pagan, but it doesn't surprise me. :)
Part of me that is still very young and naive blinks hard at the possibility of having to die for one's beliefs, in the 21st century, in the US of A. But the part of me that has consciously chosen a different path these last years from most of our fellow citizens knows the truth when you say, "I still am well aware that I could be called upon to die for the difference in my faith from the mainstream religion." This is the same uncomfortable truth as an openly gay friend of mine who wants my father-in-law (a firearms instructor) to teach him how to shoot a gun because he believes that his life will one day be in danger from Christian zealots. Bobby and I practice our beliefs privately; we share what we have and what we know about working with the earth for the benefit of all who choose to accept it, but I've no doubt that there may come a day when we are threatened for our lack of belief in Christianity.
There is nothing comfortable about facing death for one's beliefs. It is highly UNcomfortable and usually extremely painful. But, along with many really poor novels, I can't turn my back on myself or the road that I walk. So the fact that I am tolerated in today's society does not mean that I will continue to be. Fortunately I don't work with others, I walk a solo road. So, I won't have large ceremonies or gatherings within which I would be identified or captured. Pleasant thoughts, aren't they?
Ah yes, the fatalistic feeling of "I shouldn't look at the comments because i know it'll be bad, but i can't help it".... I'm guilty of doing that too.
This entire post is completely spot on, unfortunately. I don't even know what else i could add.
But I'm kind of glad that I did, in retrospect, because of the thoughtful discussion now going on here and on DW. :) I feel much less crazy and much less alone right now than I did after reading many of those comments.
Almost 80 percent of the population here are nominally Christian, many of them combining Christianity with traditional African religion. Despite that, the practice is to have a minute's quiet contemplation before a session of Parliament or a public meeting or such. That way, one can pray to God or Allah or the ancestors, or calculate how many minutes till the lunch break. To my mind, that's how it should be done, ezpecially when I compare it to the 'bad old days' when the Christian God was invoked relentlessly at such times.
I wondered if you were a Druid. No reason, just instinct.
I wondered if you were a Druid. No reason, just instinct.
I find it interesting how many have commented here that they either suspected or are totally unsurprised. :)
When I was student teaching--and my home county is very conservative, which translates to very Christian--the school where I taught had a moment of silence every morning. I liked that. I knew the motive was to allow students who wanted to pray in school to do so, but it also allowed me the chance for a moment of meditation, reflection, and peace before the inevitable hullabaloo of my day began. I don't think we have enough moments of silence in life, so I'm with you, and I wish more organizations over here would adopt this as an alternative that allows for prayer while respecting the beliefs of all.
Yeah... What's kind of funny to me is that back when I was Christian, I kept hearing about how Christians are the (persecuted!) minority, and what a tremendous struggle it is, having to put up with all the godlessness around us and getting looked at funny or even mocked for "being true to ourselves." But somehow it was still very easy for some of the very same people saying that to bring up that "America is a Christian country!" when they wanted religious minorities to shut up
( ... )
I really don't understand how Christians convince themselves that they are a persecuted minority, but then, I realize that comes from being a lifelong outsider of that faith. After all, white people and men convince themselves that they're persecuted too. I know, as a white middle class person myself and enjoying all of the privileges of that position, it was hard for me to learn and understand that racism or classism didn't come from hurt feelings--like when one of my Black students made the offhand remark that all white people look the same--but from power ... like when the place I've attained in life in part because of my economic advantages and, yes, skin color allow me to wield an enormous amount of power over the fate of my Black students. I suppose it's extra hard for many Christians to see how their power differs them from other groups that might make hurtful comments because of a long history of glorifying their misery and depicting themselves as martyrs. When their faith holds the power and the wealth, it's hard to argue
( ... )
Yeah, I think part of it is a belief of a lot of Christians have that Christianity is The Way and everyone's in danger of going to hell if society isn't (a certain kind of) Christian enough (which can create a sense of being surrounded by threats), part of it is simply being so used to having things accommodate your own (sub)culture that even little changes made to accommodate someone else seem like a major imposition, and part of it is simply only feeling one's own pain (and not having enough experience with other perspectives to see them as real people who can feel pain, too
( ... )
Thank you for the well thought out explanation, Niki. I definitely can understand the perspective from which you came. I suppose, to compare to my own life, when I was an animal rights radical, I truly believed that each person "converted" to vegetarianism would not only live a longer, healthier life, but I was saving animals, the environment, and starving people every time I got someone to choose vegetarian over a meat option. It wasn't that simple in reality, but that was what I believed, and my behavior reflected that. It was also comforting to believe that my choices had such an enormous impact across multiple issues. If one really and truly believes that a loved one's immortal soul is in danger, I can see the urgency in "saving" that person, even to the point of making oneself unpopular or a nuisance. After all, eternity in hell is infinitely worse than even starving children, global warming, and factory-farming atrocities
( ... )
As a Christian I know that I have privileges of my faith. When I was very young it was not uncommon to have the Gideons come into the schools and pass out little Bibles to all the fifth graders, and to hold Bible-verse memory quizzes in the classroom. By that time, the Courts had decided that the officials of the school could not lead prayers, and so the school invited outsiders to come do it instead
( ... )
Thanks for your comment, Barb. I do confess that I sometimes feel intense anger against Christians, whose power in this country has hurt my family and people I care about in very palpable ways, and I have to smack myself alongside the head and remind myself that I practice peace. ;) Incidents like when I was in the teacher's computer room the other day and a TA came in and started complaining about having to attend the wedding of a woman she knew was bisexual, and another teacher reminded her that "As Christians, it is not our place to judge; we just have to love," or comments like yours help me to keep my perspective, so I thank you for it. :)
I know I'm privileged when it is the holidays I observe that are officially recognizedAs an agnostic, I practiced these holidays in secular form (and still do, although I'm constantly trying to get Easter off my calendar, I have to confess!) and never really realized my privilege. When I started practicing Druidry--and we observe eight seasonal holidays to mark the changing seasons and the
( ... )
I wish more Christians understood why separation of church and state is beneficial to Christians.
We've been admonished: "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's." The worldly and the spiritual are two different spheres, and when we get them tangled up, it's the spiritual that suffers.
We also have obligations to our faith that might not be met if we have to give consideration to the state-- as we see by the restrictions placed on religious charities when they accept federal or state tax dollars.
And finally it comes down to fairness towards those who do not share our faith. In the past Christians have been a persecuted minority. And as you point out certain sects of Christianity are persecuted by other sects. This persecution has little to do with faith, and a lot to do with politics and culture. Is it fair for us to turn around and visit that persecution on others? I think not.
Comments 54
- Erulisse (one L)
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Part of me that is still very young and naive blinks hard at the possibility of having to die for one's beliefs, in the 21st century, in the US of A. But the part of me that has consciously chosen a different path these last years from most of our fellow citizens knows the truth when you say, "I still am well aware that I could be called upon to die for the difference in my faith from the mainstream religion." This is the same uncomfortable truth as an openly gay friend of mine who wants my father-in-law (a firearms instructor) to teach him how to shoot a gun because he believes that his life will one day be in danger from Christian zealots. Bobby and I practice our beliefs privately; we share what we have and what we know about working with the earth for the benefit of all who choose to accept it, but I've no doubt that there may come a day when we are threatened for our lack of belief in Christianity.
Reply
- Erulisse (one L)
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This entire post is completely spot on, unfortunately. I don't even know what else i could add.
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I wondered if you were a Druid. No reason, just instinct.
Reply
I find it interesting how many have commented here that they either suspected or are totally unsurprised. :)
When I was student teaching--and my home county is very conservative, which translates to very Christian--the school where I taught had a moment of silence every morning. I liked that. I knew the motive was to allow students who wanted to pray in school to do so, but it also allowed me the chance for a moment of meditation, reflection, and peace before the inevitable hullabaloo of my day began. I don't think we have enough moments of silence in life, so I'm with you, and I wish more organizations over here would adopt this as an alternative that allows for prayer while respecting the beliefs of all.
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I know I'm privileged when it is the holidays I observe that are officially recognizedAs an agnostic, I practiced these holidays in secular form (and still do, although I'm constantly trying to get Easter off my calendar, I have to confess!) and never really realized my privilege. When I started practicing Druidry--and we observe eight seasonal holidays to mark the changing seasons and the ( ... )
Reply
We've been admonished: "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's." The worldly and the spiritual are two different spheres, and when we get them tangled up, it's the spiritual that suffers.
We also have obligations to our faith that might not be met if we have to give consideration to the state-- as we see by the restrictions placed on religious charities when they accept federal or state tax dollars.
And finally it comes down to fairness towards those who do not share our faith. In the past Christians have been a persecuted minority. And as you point out certain sects of Christianity are persecuted by other sects. This persecution has little to do with faith, and a lot to do with politics and culture. Is it fair for us to turn around and visit that persecution on others? I think not.
Reply
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