really enjoyed your take on Steve - it seems to jive with my own but I"m not a writer so I can't put into practice what you are suggesting but I so very much agree with it!
I belong to another fandom that has slash as well as gen in their story lineups and one of the members decided to create a place to post her fic because she thought that as women writing male slash, they tended to "feminize" the guys a bit too much - like having the waterworks come on whenever they would have a falling out and she said - even men who love each other do NOT act like women in emotional situations re: tears.
Your entry here reminded me of that - yes some stories do use the big dumb goof a bit too literally when they write Steve - and like you I believe when he behaves like this a bit with Danny its just to rev him up - and it works. There is nothing Steve likes better than to see Danny's temperature rise...LOL
thanx for this - I enjoyed it very much - glad it wasn't just me thinking these things :)
Oh gods - turning the guys into girls - you have it nailed.
Unless you're actually writing effeminate gay characters and they're designed that way, there is no reason on God's green earth to have two very masculine men give way to waterworks at the drop of a hat. Not that there isn't such a thing as "manly tears" but I really have a hard time imagining either Steve or Danny acting as a "girl" in any relationship, slash goggles or not.
And to be honest, it's pretty much a discredit to a writer if they still persist in perceiving gay or bisexual people in those stereotypes. They're people - their preference in sexual partners is one thing but their personality traits don't necessarily have to follow old and trite male/female traits.
I totally agree with you. I've seen these fics too. They're caricatural and one dimensioned, but to each his own, I guess. What I like (no, what I love!) in Steve is that he's such a complex and interesting person. He's highly intelligent (he speaks several languages, he's been Naval Intelligence, I guess he has a good level of education?), he's brave and ethical, he's an emotional mess (but hides it rather well most of the time), he's a bit rigid but he's capable of humor, and of course, he's beautiful ; )! Like you, I think there's a good reason he's the leader here! Thanks for the very interesting post! It's such a pleasure to think and share about nice subjects like Steve!
Unless I've completely missed out on my Tom Clancy (lol) - Naval Intelligence pretty much handles a lot of the cloak and dagger side of US Naval operations. Meaning, Steve would have had access to a lot of information coming in from all over the world that could pose a potential or likely threat to the safety and security of the U.S.
While his work there isn't made clear, it implies that Steve either had a hand in bringing that intelligence in and/or was involved in analyzing it as well.
And yes, this is a smart guy - it's not an average Joe who can easily MacGuyver stuff lying around to substitute for the materials the CSI folks use.... even if Kono can easily grab her kit from the car. ROFL.
This is pretty much why I could really see Steve as being one of Seal TEAM Six and enjoy any fic that is well written enough and brave enough to handle that topic.
And it's also why I cringe on seeing fic where Steve is beat down on by the Mook of the Day. No, that's not gonna happen. You either take Steve McGarrett by surprise or you have him in circumstances where Steve is unable to utilize his training efficiently. But no, he won't go down easily.
Yes, to the word choices! I can't believe people are missing that. I've never thought that it was because Steve has a limited vocabulary. DANNY likes yanking his chain that way but Steve is NOT a moron. He's questioning Danny's word choices because Danny tends to sound like a walking dictionary, which of course, amuses him to no end. But he DEFINITELY understands those words!
Loved your views here and agree with a lot of them; my own personal beef is the insistence that Steve has the emotional maturity of a mango, and that Danny is too far above him in the emotional scale. I mean, I get it that Steve is more analytical than Danny, but if he was the basket case of insecurity and loss that some fics have him being, he'd never have been able to get through SEAL training without being tagged and prolly bagged
( ... )
OMG yes and ROFLMAO to your views on pizza. I know better than to question someone from the East Coast on pizza. HAHA.
Yes, Steve has plenty of emotional issues but not to the extent that he's incapable of making command decisions or leading a team. I agree that he wouldn't have made it far as a SEAL if he was such a basket case.
And yes, Danny has been handled rather badly in recent fics, to the point that the trend I'm seeing is that he's turning into this effeminate caricature, which he's not.
I'm optimistic on fics though, as a whole. I keep an eye on my favorite authors and give the newbies a chance but leave quietly when they disappoint.
And when all else fails - hell, I'll start writing the stories I want to see if I can't find 'em!
"The fics that have him not understanding some of Danny's vocab make me cringe. It's a style of use, not a lack of knowledge that makes Steve comment on Danny's word choices."
There's fic that doesn't understand this? Seriously? Holy cow, thank god I haven't read one of those yet...
My personal 'highlight' on the fic front recently: Danny and the rest of the team feeling abandoned by Steve, blaming him and throwing tantrums when he's being deployed. Yeah, exactly, he's especially arranged to go overseas on a dangerous mission just to annoy them... *sighs*
I agree with you completely. I have decided to read the authors who portray Steve and Danny as real people with a full range of emotions with a real relationship with each other, be it bromance or slash, not one dimensional caricatures. It is frustrating to have Steve portrayed as clueless and Danny as all knowing. The men I know in real life, even the gay men, are not as effeminate as some writers portray D & S. I do know many real men who are not afraid to show tears, but it is usually in a place you normally would see that like at funerals. And it's true that my all male hubby does cry at the Climb Every Mountain scene in Sound of Music, but he doesn't cry over some ridiculous scenarios fic writers have
( ... )
I honestly don't know how anyone could think Steve dumb. He's not a cop, sure, and I could see Danny or Chin schooling him on the finer points, but he's by no means stupid. He obviously makes connections quickly and definitely thinks on his feet. These are both demonstrable in pretty much every single episode.
But now I'm sitting here all paranoid about whether or not I have Steve character infractions. ;)
LOLOLOL- this is my loudest thought reading this- did I get Danny and Steve right in Brother!verse? lolololol - I do have Danny say that Steve knows procedure inside and out...
Comments 48
I belong to another fandom that has slash as well as gen in their story lineups and one of the members decided to create a place to post her fic because she thought that as women writing male slash, they tended to "feminize" the guys a bit too much - like having the waterworks come on whenever they would have a falling out and she said - even men who love each other do NOT act like women in emotional situations re: tears.
Your entry here reminded me of that - yes some stories do use the big dumb goof a bit too literally when they write Steve - and like you I believe when he behaves like this a bit with Danny its just to rev him up - and it works. There is nothing Steve likes better than to see Danny's temperature rise...LOL
thanx for this - I enjoyed it very much - glad it wasn't just me thinking these things :)
Reply
Unless you're actually writing effeminate gay characters and they're designed that way, there is no reason on God's green earth to have two very masculine men give way to waterworks at the drop of a hat. Not that there isn't such a thing as "manly tears" but I really have a hard time imagining either Steve or Danny acting as a "girl" in any relationship, slash goggles or not.
And to be honest, it's pretty much a discredit to a writer if they still persist in perceiving gay or bisexual people in those stereotypes. They're people - their preference in sexual partners is one thing but their personality traits don't necessarily have to follow old and trite male/female traits.
Reply
Like you, I think there's a good reason he's the leader here! Thanks for the very interesting post! It's such a pleasure to think and share about nice subjects like Steve!
Reply
While his work there isn't made clear, it implies that Steve either had a hand in bringing that intelligence in and/or was involved in analyzing it as well.
And yes, this is a smart guy - it's not an average Joe who can easily MacGuyver stuff lying around to substitute for the materials the CSI folks use.... even if Kono can easily grab her kit from the car. ROFL.
Reply
Reply
And it's also why I cringe on seeing fic where Steve is beat down on by the Mook of the Day. No, that's not gonna happen. You either take Steve McGarrett by surprise or you have him in circumstances where Steve is unable to utilize his training efficiently. But no, he won't go down easily.
Yes, to the word choices! I can't believe people are missing that. I've never thought that it was because Steve has a limited vocabulary. DANNY likes yanking his chain that way but Steve is NOT a moron. He's questioning Danny's word choices because Danny tends to sound like a walking dictionary, which of course, amuses him to no end. But he DEFINITELY understands those words!
Reply
Reply
Yes, Steve has plenty of emotional issues but not to the extent that he's incapable of making command decisions or leading a team. I agree that he wouldn't have made it far as a SEAL if he was such a basket case.
And yes, Danny has been handled rather badly in recent fics, to the point that the trend I'm seeing is that he's turning into this effeminate caricature, which he's not.
I'm optimistic on fics though, as a whole. I keep an eye on my favorite authors and give the newbies a chance but leave quietly when they disappoint.
And when all else fails - hell, I'll start writing the stories I want to see if I can't find 'em!
Reply
There's fic that doesn't understand this? Seriously? Holy cow, thank god I haven't read one of those yet...
My personal 'highlight' on the fic front recently: Danny and the rest of the team feeling abandoned by Steve, blaming him and throwing tantrums when he's being deployed. Yeah, exactly, he's especially arranged to go overseas on a dangerous mission just to annoy them... *sighs*
Reply
Reply
I honestly don't know how anyone could think Steve dumb. He's not a cop, sure, and I could see Danny or Chin schooling him on the finer points, but he's by no means stupid. He obviously makes connections quickly and definitely thinks on his feet. These are both demonstrable in pretty much every single episode.
But now I'm sitting here all paranoid about whether or not I have Steve character infractions. ;)
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment