It's a technical innocence now, because Baltar did protest before signing the death order, but he did enable the occupation, and more importantly, he was the leader; he gladly accepted the power and the rewards of leadership when things were going well for the fleet, but refuses to take any responsibility for the failures of his regime once things went badly.
I don't think Lee was entirely wrong in his challenge: "What would you have done? What could be done?" However what's missing in the show, because only Baltar knows it, and he may not have made the connection, is that Baltar gave the Six from Pegasus (I think? Right?) the nuclear device which she set off near New Caprica, thus drawing the Cylons to them. He is a traitor, and he is responsible for the loss of life on New Caprica, but not in the way that any of the prosecution ever could know.
And, of course, culpable in myriad other ways, from the original crime of letting Six into the security system to not outing Boomer, etc etc etc.
However what's missing in the show, because only Baltar knows it, and he may not have made the connection, is that Baltar gave the Six from Pegasus (I think? Right?) the nuclear device which she set off near New Caprica, thus drawing the Cylons to them.
Oh yes! I wish the show had made that connection, because all of the character flaws that let the original Six manipulate him led him to give Gina that bomb, but that time he was more knowingly doing something that was sure to cause some kind of terrible outcome.
I'm not sure if it's just me, and having my expectations interfere with my perception, but I don't think it's a very good one. Too broad and nasally, I think.
I thought it was awfully nasally at times too. But I was so hyper-conscious of it that I'm not sure how it would sound to someone who'd never heard her speak before. I think she has an unusual, lovely voice, and it seemed like a lot of its distinctive timbre got lost in the nasalness.
Nah, it's not just you. It's better than the first time I heard her do it in Hercules (she can now at least attempt the accent and act at the same time) but still painful to hear. I think it's partly because she doesn't really have an ear for accents at the best of times -- judging by some of the early stuff I've seen she doesn't even do proper Australian all that well. But mostly the problem is that it's not placed anywhere specific, so it roams from New York to Chicago to Sydney to Surrey and back to New York again, sometimes within the same sentence.
But hey...no pigtails. I can forgive a few slipped vowels for Miss Claudie looking like a grown woman again.
I always thought she did a passable job in "Out of Their Minds," but it's possible that, everything being relative, Browder's "British" accent had melted my eardrums.
Like you, I'm not sure what to think about BSG yet. I guess I'll decide in nine months or so, right?
I have decided that I quite like The Dresden Files: Harry as played by Paul Blackthorne, a decidely non-wholesome blonde Murphy, a Bob I can see and several other things. I don't necessarily always need a show that makes me think deep thoughts. Sometimes I just like to look a pretty man handling a magic hockey stick and I'm okay with that.
I absolutely cannot drink coffee after noon unless I *want* to be counting sheep or painting red brick walls white (don't ask) at 2 a.m.
Sometimes I just like to look a pretty man handling a magic hockey stick and I'm okay with that.
Hee. Words of wisdom.
2pm is usually my cutoff point for coffee. And I know that, but sometimes, for some reason, it just seems like a good idea to see if it's still the case, and what do you know, it always is.
I'm hesitant to comment too much on this until I've actually seen all the episodes, but as always, your thoughts are very intriguing.
he gladly accepted the power and the rewards of leadership when things were going well for the fleet, but refuses to take any responsibility for the failures of his regime once things went badly
Absolutely true. Though (as I understand it) he's not being tried here for the failures of his regime that are his responsibility (the hedonistic apathy that we saw just before the Cylon invasion on New Caprica), he's being tried for collusion with the Cylons, which to me are two separate things. I don't think there's a direct connection between his weakness as a leader and the Cylon occupation, unless it's that (IIRC) he gave Gina the nuclear bomb, which eventually served as a signpost for the Cylons, but--as Cofax points out--that's not on the table here because no one knows about it. Baltar is a spineless weasel, and this is not news, but I don't think Lee is wrong in that Baltar's only other option was
( ... )
Though (as I understand it) he's not being tried here for the failures of his regime that are his responsibility (the hedonistic apathy that we saw just before the Cylon invasion on New Caprica), he's being tried for collusion with the Cylons, which to me are two separate things.
No, you're right to make that distinction--that's why the prosecution failed to make the case, because no matter how morally questionable Baltar is (and that's just with the stuff they know about), they brought a specific set of charges against him, and failed to prove them. But I do think that while what they know of Baltar's crimes didn't differ significantly in practice from, say, Jammer's--cooperate to get ahead and survive--there was a difference of degree, because Baltar was the leader, and gave cover and legitimacy to the occupation in ways nobody else could, and I just don't think you get to have the fancy office and the power and the interns when the times are good but maintain you're just like everybody else when the situation turns. Either way,
( ... )
After reading a few interviews with Moore today about the finale, I'm getting a very strong impression he's planning next season as if it could be the last
Really? I'll have to hunt those down. Though I must say, as someone who watches avidly but hasn't really done the fannish discussion, the finale did indeed feel like they were putting all the pieces in place for what they already knew would be the last season, even if they haven't yet decided how it's going to play out. And though I love the show, I kind of hope next year is indeed the end...the natural life of this story looks to be about four years. Not to mention that four years seems to be the length of Skiffy's patience with anything, no matter how popular with critics and/or fans.
I would not be sorry if last year was the end, just because they don't seem to be able to pull off a full season of episodes, and I'd like it if they had some warning to bring the show to a coherent close. And not, you know, leave the leads blown into a million crystals on the ocean floor. As you say, there's a natural arc to this story and they seem to be nearing the final part of it, and I'd rather get tight storytelling than a bunch of filler.
I tend to be pretty careful about reading interviews to avoid spoilers, but this post gives the non-spoilery parts of a recent interview Moore did and links to the whole thing.
The explanation for Kara's return is the one thing I am dying to find out. I just can't come up with anything on that. At this point I really don't think she's the final Cylon reveal.
I'm beginning to wonder if The Final Five are The First Five. Ron worked on ST:TNG and, if I am remembering correctly, it was revealed that Data's more human, emotional, and, well, sociopathic brother, Lore, actually was created before him. What if Tyrol, Anders, Tigh, Tory, and whoever the other one is were created but deemed too much like the people they were being copied from? Too flawed? I have to think about this some more, but it just popped into my head.
What if Tyrol, Anders, Tigh, Tory, and whoever the other one is were created but deemed too much like the people they were being copied from? Too flawed?
There does seem to be some significant division between the 7 and the 5. But I'm not sure how your idea would fit in with the way Six and Boomer have been intrigued by weaknesses like love all along. Hm. I need to think about this more too.
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I don't think Lee was entirely wrong in his challenge: "What would you have done? What could be done?" However what's missing in the show, because only Baltar knows it, and he may not have made the connection, is that Baltar gave the Six from Pegasus (I think? Right?) the nuclear device which she set off near New Caprica, thus drawing the Cylons to them. He is a traitor, and he is responsible for the loss of life on New Caprica, but not in the way that any of the prosecution ever could know.
And, of course, culpable in myriad other ways, from the original crime of letting Six into the security system to not outing Boomer, etc etc etc.
I love Claudia, but there is such a ( ... )
Reply
Oh yes! I wish the show had made that connection, because all of the character flaws that let the original Six manipulate him led him to give Gina that bomb, but that time he was more knowingly doing something that was sure to cause some kind of terrible outcome.
I'm not sure if it's just me, and having my expectations interfere with my perception, but I don't think it's a very good one. Too broad and nasally, I think.
I thought it was awfully nasally at times too. But I was so hyper-conscious of it that I'm not sure how it would sound to someone who'd never heard her speak before. I think she has an unusual, lovely voice, and it seemed like a lot of its distinctive timbre got lost in the nasalness.
Reply
But hey...no pigtails. I can forgive a few slipped vowels for Miss Claudie looking like a grown woman again.
Reply
Reply
I have decided that I quite like The Dresden Files: Harry as played by Paul Blackthorne, a decidely non-wholesome blonde Murphy, a Bob I can see and several other things. I don't necessarily always need a show that makes me think deep thoughts. Sometimes I just like to look a pretty man handling a magic hockey stick and I'm okay with that.
I absolutely cannot drink coffee after noon unless I *want* to be counting sheep or painting red brick walls white (don't ask) at 2 a.m.
Reply
I think that's going to be my strategy.
Sometimes I just like to look a pretty man handling a magic hockey stick and I'm okay with that.
Hee. Words of wisdom.
2pm is usually my cutoff point for coffee. And I know that, but sometimes, for some reason, it just seems like a good idea to see if it's still the case, and what do you know, it always is.
Reply
he gladly accepted the power and the rewards of leadership when things were going well for the fleet, but refuses to take any responsibility for the failures of his regime once things went badly
Absolutely true. Though (as I understand it) he's not being tried here for the failures of his regime that are his responsibility (the hedonistic apathy that we saw just before the Cylon invasion on New Caprica), he's being tried for collusion with the Cylons, which to me are two separate things. I don't think there's a direct connection between his weakness as a leader and the Cylon occupation, unless it's that (IIRC) he gave Gina the nuclear bomb, which eventually served as a signpost for the Cylons, but--as Cofax points out--that's not on the table here because no one knows about it. Baltar is a spineless weasel, and this is not news, but I don't think Lee is wrong in that Baltar's only other option was ( ... )
Reply
No, you're right to make that distinction--that's why the prosecution failed to make the case, because no matter how morally questionable Baltar is (and that's just with the stuff they know about), they brought a specific set of charges against him, and failed to prove them. But I do think that while what they know of Baltar's crimes didn't differ significantly in practice from, say, Jammer's--cooperate to get ahead and survive--there was a difference of degree, because Baltar was the leader, and gave cover and legitimacy to the occupation in ways nobody else could, and I just don't think you get to have the fancy office and the power and the interns when the times are good but maintain you're just like everybody else when the situation turns. Either way, ( ... )
Reply
Really? I'll have to hunt those down. Though I must say, as someone who watches avidly but hasn't really done the fannish discussion, the finale did indeed feel like they were putting all the pieces in place for what they already knew would be the last season, even if they haven't yet decided how it's going to play out. And though I love the show, I kind of hope next year is indeed the end...the natural life of this story looks to be about four years. Not to mention that four years seems to be the length of Skiffy's patience with anything, no matter how popular with critics and/or fans.
Reply
I tend to be pretty careful about reading interviews to avoid spoilers, but this post gives the non-spoilery parts of a recent interview Moore did and links to the whole thing.
Reply
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I'm beginning to wonder if The Final Five are The First Five. Ron worked on ST:TNG and, if I am remembering correctly, it was revealed that Data's more human, emotional, and, well, sociopathic brother, Lore, actually was created before him. What if Tyrol, Anders, Tigh, Tory, and whoever the other one is were created but deemed too much like the people they were being copied from? Too flawed? I have to think about this some more, but it just popped into my head.
Reply
There does seem to be some significant division between the 7 and the 5. But I'm not sure how your idea would fit in with the way Six and Boomer have been intrigued by weaknesses like love all along. Hm. I need to think about this more too.
Reply
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