Circumcision rant

[dalekboy]

In one of my recent posts, I mentioned that circumcising a child for reasons that are not solidly medical or religious is something that should be thought about in terms of what the child may prefer, not what you want.

Someone pulled me up on this, saying that they consider mutilation because of religion a bad reason for doing it.

Comments

[transcendancing]

Interesting read. I personally see no reason to do so unless medically necessary, but also I'm not going to condemn people who do it just because I disagree - as you said, there is the ability to be supportive without agreeing.

[drjon]

To compare male and female circumcision isn't really fair: in the vast majority of cases, the male equivalent of what's called "female circumcision" would amount to severing the entire foreskin and glans off down to the corpora cavernosa, and then pushing what's left of the shaft into the pubis and stitching it up.

It's also worth mentioning that male circumcision is usually a scriptually-mandated religious procedure; whereas female circumcision is, to the best of my knowledge, a culturally-mandated one.

[angriest]

This was my thought - although I'm still not in favour of male circumcision.

[drjon]

And you won't see any opinion either way in my initial comment.

[angriest]

Is that because you don't have one, or you didn't feel like sharing it? Just curious.

Rant alert.

[king_espresso]

I find the whole idea of ring-barking babies to be barbaric. Superstitions as an excuse to justify it? Nah, you're cutting a baby unnecessarily, without anaesthetic in a part of his body that has a lot of nerve endings. Look at a calendar, work out what century you live in and do the right fucking thing. If you're Jewish, do you still shit 200 metres outside town or have you adapted to the changes in technologies? From my point of view, circumcision is simply child abuse. It's about as necessary as an ear-piercing.

Re: Rant alert.

[dalekboy]

I don't disagree with you, but one of the major points of my argument against it in general is that for many people it's purely an asthetic choice, rather than a cultural/traditional one. I'm not saying that any of those choices are good ones, but I know that one that makes my skin crawl more.

Re: Rant alert.

[king_espresso]

It's the same argument you get when you discuss body hair with some women. I don't want to wax my bloody back!

Re: Rant alert.

[mireille21]

Whereas I much prefer to have smooth body parts. I'll let you guess which ones.

[dalekboy]

If someone said "I'll circumcise my son because it's the done thing in my social group." they would be condemned...

Actually, no they wouldn't. As I mentioned, it happens all the time, and the reasons are usually down to a preferred look on the part of the parents, and no-one argues against that. Soemone saying 'it's what is done in my social circle' isn't really that different to 'they look nicer.'

As to arguments over religion, I tend to respect people's beliefs. I would rather they they be a good person because that's who they want to be, rather than their invisible friend telling them to, or doing it out of fear, or for a big reward in the next world, but at the end of the day, educating people is better than damning them.

You educate them, hopefully they'll reach the conclusions on their own, you criticise them, they stop listening.

[vegetus]

But what about educating the people who believe that it is cleaner/reduces STDs/looks better? Why aren't you respecting their beliefs and taking baby steps with them? The STD claim is at least backed up with scientific studies rather than organised religion- and it's very easy to educate on condom usage rather than, "hey your religion is way outdated, man"

Whilst I agree that a welfarist view of baby steps and education is the best way to go in the long run on many issues, I don't see why you don't apply it to all groups.

[dalekboy]

Some groups are new, still in a state of flux and so change can be fairly easy and immediate, others are much older, and when dealing with thousands of years of ingrained tradition and beliefs, it takes time to change them. You're not just dealing with an individual's belief, but part of their cultural heritage

[rachelholkner]

I assume that the reason guys don't talk about decisions regarding their son's circumcision is that it means they are, in effect, talking about their own dicks. And most guys are not going to do that in a room full of strangers (ante-natal class for example). I've witnessed it too, and it's often accompanied by floor-gazing on the part of the men.

[drjon]

That's not the floor they're gazing at.