Circumcision rant

Aug 04, 2008 12:35

In one of my recent posts, I mentioned that circumcising a child for reasons that are not solidly medical or religious is something that should be thought about in terms of what the child may prefer, not what you want.

Someone pulled me up on this, saying that they consider mutilation because of religion a bad reason for doing it. ( Long rant against circumcision, with reasons why doing it for religious reasons is still preferable to many other excuses... )

serious thoughts, perception shift, rants

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dalekboy August 5 2008, 01:38:25 UTC
Some groups are new, still in a state of flux and so change can be fairly easy and immediate, others are much older, and when dealing with thousands of years of ingrained tradition and beliefs, it takes time to change them. You're not just dealing with an individual's belief, but part of their cultural heritage.

If we're going to say that people who practice ancient beliefs like circumcision are just wrong, well, let's reclaim the land that we've put aside for the aboriginals for a start. Time they started living in the modern world. Their beliefs about land and community are based partially on superstition.

I don't think there's many people on my friends list that would support an idea like that, but it's really not so different. If we can respect the aboriginal beliefs to the point where we give them land on which to practice them, allow them the choice of white man's or aboriginal law and punishment, why should we give any less consideration to other groups?

Most western views of religion tend to have it very compartmentalised, which isn't true for many others. For many cultures, their religion isn't a small separate part of their overall life, but informs their everyday living and forms a significant part of their cultural heritage.

Put another way, why don't we set about scrapping Easter and Christmas breaks? The percentage of Christians in Aust is small these days, not to mention the fact that all that stuff is based on even older pagan beliefs. We still have them because they've become part of our cultural heritage, and you can't just change that on a moment's notice.

The groups I don't apply this sort of consideration to are recent, or are basing their decisions around asthetic choice with no basis in fact. "I want bub to look like his dad," is ridiculous. It's saying that a child who is genetically derived from a guy isn't going to be enough like him without surgery.

Can you imagine how people would react if a parent wanted their child to have plastic surgery for no other reason than to make them look like their father? Or if a parent wanted their child to have surgery to reshape their ears to points because they thought the fairy look was nicer?

But I'm getting away from my point and ranting, sorry.

Most of the people who believe that it is cleaner/reduces STDs/looks better aren't coming from a cultural/traditional background of doing it that dates back beyond their own generation. Many of them are basing the decision on personal preference or something they've been told or heard, without looking into it at anything more than a surface level.

If someone says to me that they've looked into it, and from the research they've done, they are firmly convinced that the benefits to their child outweighs the risks, I can respect that even if I still happen disagree. But I also have the option of saying, "Really, what's the latest info?" and getting a heads-up.

I can't respect the decision of someone whose only reason is "Oh it stops disease," and they haven't done the research or even simply bothered to ask the family doctor. When what has instead happened is either they've read an article, seen something on Today Tonight, had one or two friends or relatives say it's better, or have just vaguely settled on the idea that it must be the right thing. And based on a vague notion that this must be right, they'll have their child operated on.

I hope that made some sort of sense... I'm kind of vague today.

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vegetus August 5 2008, 06:52:45 UTC
Whilst I can see your point of view, I disagree with you on the point about differing laws for people based on ethnicity and culture. Should we allow different sections of the community to have their own laws? What if it was acceptable for rape of wives to occur in a culture? What about foot binding? What about arranged marrage? What about black people having to sit in different areas on the bus from white people? There are many things that our modern society deems unacceptable, yet individual members support for "tradition" and if people wish to take part in that society they need to follow the laws set out.

Case in point, traditional marrage in indigenious communities are often used as a defense of underage rape. Is it okay for a man to force a minor to have sex with him because "tradtionally" he is married to her in his "custom"? Judges are often afraid of being seen as culturally insensitive so give softer sentences- how do you think that makes the victim feel? It's okay for them to do this to me because I'm black?
http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Aboriginal-men-twisting-customary-law/2007/04/04/1175366301126.html
(I've read about this over the past few years on numerous times, but this was the first link that I found when searching this morning)

I'm in support of changing the Xmas/Easter breaks because they do not suit many people in Australian society anymore. What would be fairer would be a number of days of leave people could use for "culturally significant days" depending on their own background. So someone who is Buddist might use it for Visak Day, a Pagan my use it for solstice etc etc

People who blindly follow something without thinking about why they are doing it scare me. It's this type of thinking that causes war, abuse, genocide and other atrocities.

There are studies that *do* back up the claim of STD prevention, though they are often looking at HIV transmission in Africa, it doesn't mean that they are not valid. It also doesn't mean everyone who subscribes to this point of view gets their information from the tabloids. But I would consider it to be more justifiable than doing something because you blindly follow something your elders did without giving it thought.

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vegetus August 5 2008, 07:03:16 UTC
Oh I should add I do agree with you that cosmetically altering another living being for convinence or aesthetic reasons is crazy (be it circumcision of boys, tail docking of dogs or museling of sheep). I don't intend of breeding anytime soon, if ever, so to be honest, it isn't something I have thougth about in a "what would I do in this situation".

What I don't get is why you'd question the person who claims to have done research (and automatically think that they are wrong), but won't bat an eyelid at someone who says it's "cultural".

I'm rambling today also.

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