"You cannot have my heart."

[cupiscent]

Went to see Snow White and the Huntsman. Good lord, that was rubbish.

Charlize was splendid; she did magnificently well with the scenery-chewing given to her, and basically 95% of everything good about the movie was related to her and her character. (Oh Ravenna. You made my heart beat frantic origin-of-the-dark-queen inspiration, and your magic

Comments

[lobelia321]

Thank you! I just saved myself £8 wot I can now spend on something else.

[cupiscent]

You're welcome! (I suffer so others don't have to? :D) It had some interesting elements, and Charlize is terribly pretty and dark-queeny. Maybe a video or on the telly one day, but no, not worth the eight pounds.

[incandescent]

Ugh. I had so looked forward to this one, too. I haven't seen it yet, but I seem to get into discussions with people about it. (Notably the disagreement my best friend and I had last night.) Now, I'll run this by you to get your opinion.

I read this review for Snow White in nymag. It wasn't terribly flattering, but it made a convincing case for the idea that Stewart's 'fairness' was less associated with outer beauty, and more with inner beauty/purity. I thought that it was an interesting idea, and a fresh take on the idea of beautiful characters. Now, my best friend contends that Stewart's casting is all wrong because she just isn't as attractive as Theron (admittedly, true). I find this not only a bit condescending and offensive, but missing an entire facet of the idea of beauty

[cupiscent]

Interesting point. Yes, emphasis is laid on Snow White's "purity" (which term I don't actually like because it has connotations of investing the state of virginity with some sort of sacred blah blah whatever). The Mirror states it's her beauty and purity which make her a threat, and so on. And there are story points where she tames the wild through just being her (now that I think of it, very unicorn-and-virgin). I'm not sure it's well developed - inasmuch as it's stated, but not especially shown that she's kind and perfect, and when the resolution still involves armour, filthy battle, and stabbing, the point of "grace overcoming power" is a little tenuous. (Gandhi does not approve.)

So yes. It's there. But like a lot of things about the movie, it gets a bit confused.

In considering this, what I'm finding most interesting about the construct of the story (in general, not just in the movie) is that it really isn't about whether or not Snow White actually is fairer than the queen. Then Queen crafts her own enemy through choosing that

[incandescent]

Oh, good. It's nice to know that I wasn't simply clinging to hope. But I'm not surprised to hear that any message that there might be is muddled. The reviews I've seen have been muddled on the whole, so it's to be expected.

I think what really upset me, though, was when I went onto rottentomatoes and skimmed through the reviews, and found that a good third to half of all the critics said something along the lines of, "That was a miscasting, because Kristen Stewart is not at all attractive enough to compete with Theron." I just felt this terrible and angry offense for women. I mean, why is her beauty the problem? Can't we talk about her acting ability like normal people?

I love the idea that the conflict was, in a sense, avoidable. If the Queen had just taken a slightly different path, everything would change. It's a thrilling idea. :)

[cupiscent]

Possibly what's most interesting about the movie is that... well, any reasonably attractive Hollywood starlet can be the most beautiful woman on the planet with the right support team (hair, make-up, costuming, lighting, photography...). So the relative base-level subjective attractivenesses of Theron and Stewart are, really, immaterial. It's how the movie chooses to glam them up that counts. And I feel like it make solid decisions not to over-prettify KStew. Which lends weight to the "internal beauty" being what counts argument.

It's funny; the more I talk about the movie, the more I'm intrigued by the issues. I have to remind myself that these are issues about the movie, not really in the movie, and no, I really do not want to have to sit through it again. lol.

[girlofavalon]

I seem to have liked everything people hated about it. In cluding her being Catholic - and no, I'm not religious. That's weird.

[cupiscent]

Yeah, I dunno. I would've loved her Catholicism if it had actually been a thing. But given the rampant pagan imagery of most of the rest of the story, and the fact that no one else in the kingdom seems to be Catholic (no mentions of Ravenna being unholy, or of the devil) it comes across as a sort of fumbling "er, we need some way to show her purity of spirit!" element. For which they could have had her just in a generic prayer posture, silent (or muttering indistinguishably). It didn't have to be a prayer innately attached to one religion, and in fact capable of identifying a sect of that religion.

Mostly, I'm just bothered by the switcheroo - she's a chained martyr! she's an innate virgin connection to the land! she's a messiah!

[girlofavalon]

I actually liked her Catholicism because of the pagan imagery of most of the rest of the story. I think the "interfaith" thing worked well, and was refreshing. You never a fantasy movie in which Christianity exists, just as you never see a movie where Christianity exists and Pagan elements are seen in a good light. This one was different.

[cupiscent]

I see your point, but I don't think the movie did that. I don't feel like there was any Christianity in it at all after that moment of prayer. Snow never calls upon or references her faith in the rest of the story, and no one else evinces any Christian faith. Even when she's lying in burial state in what's ostensibly a church, the trappings of Christianity are absent. I don't think it followed through with the Christianity, and I wish it had, because you're right, that would be a powerful and beautiful thing to see.

(Though, at the same time, it might have given the story a poisonous overtone of "in a woman, experience is evil and must be cast out by the pure Christian virgin, who brings light to the benighted heathens". That's rather why the Christianity needs to be demonstrated by more than just Snow.)

[immlass]

I had heard it was really bad and a few specifics mentioned, but some of this is new to me. I'm not sorry I passed on it.

[cupiscent]

That was a good decision, I think. It was terribly, wonderfully, drastically pretty, but quite badly flawed, imho.

The origin elements for the dark queen, though, were really interesting. She's given a history that believably and justifiably shapes her into who and what she is today, and I wanted infinitely more of it.

[immlass]

It is frequently the case that the Dark Queen is way more awesome than the milquetoast she beats in these things. It makes you want to grow up to be a Dark Queen. (I'm very interested in Maleficent and not just because it's La Jolie, although that doesn't hurt.)

[dharma_slut]

can there be fanfic for Maleficent? I mean... do I have to watch the movie?

Also "Revenge Barbie with narcolepsy."

I love you forever.

[cupiscent]

I'm erring on putting the blame on the writing, mostly because there were moments where I loved what they were doing on screen, and I thought they handled the most terrible moments of writing (mostly their big speeches) as well as they could. Like, I like Stewart's delivery of her post-wake-up speech, while simultaneously sitting there going wtf about the actual words. But it can be hard to tell whose fault is what, and I'm not wedded to my view on things. :)

Definitely yes on the boring.