We take satisfaction in taking out Haldir. But taking pleasure in Haldir's pain? That (to use a figure of speech) brings a check in the Spirit. Understandable, yes. But just a bit disturbing - and a potent reminder that we don't need no stinking Ring to become tainted ourselves.
Call me prejudiced, but I believe that understanding the moral import of one's own sins is the beginning of redemption. Haldir took pleasure in Legolas's pain long before, and he may well have done the same with other Mirkwood hostages. Legolas has just given Haldir something to think about during his stay in Mandos, however long that may be.
I saw Legolas's emotion not so much as joy in pain, but satisfaction at the poetic justice of the situation. If indeed, Legolas is becoming corrupted, it is a powerful object lesson for us all. Indeed, that is the pont of this story. One cannot subject another to such misery without dire consequences.
Re: Karma?crowdaughterJanuary 2 2007, 23:17:03 UTC
I saw Legolas's emotion not so much as joy in pain, but satisfaction at the poetic justice of the situation. If indeed, Legolas is becoming corrupted, it is a powerful object lesson for us all. Indeed, that is the pont of this story. One cannot subject another to such misery without dire consequences.Indeed it is. However, I am not very sure if the distiction between joy in pain and poetic justice is really valid at this point. That might be a little too subtle a distinction to describe what is happening here. Not that being satisfied that Haldir, now, also gets to taste a bit of the pain he and others caused would not be justified. Unfortunately, the satisfaction *does* seem to tend to strengthen the Ring's hold on his mind... when we take revenge, as justified revenge may be, it will also twist us. That is a very sad lesson, but also very true. But at least, there is still enough strength and concern in Legolas that the people he loves and for whom he cares are more important to him and in his mind than simple pay-back
( ... )
I have to say that I have mixed feelings about Legolas' encounter with Haldir. On the one hand, it is nice (?) that he gets some personal payback before the inevitable end. But on the other hand, it is just a bit... disturbing... to see his satisfaction over Haldir's pain when Haldir realizes that his brothers must be dead. It is not that I can't sympathize - certainly the Wood Elves have suffered plenty, and the desire for revenge is understandable - but it is unnerving.I must confess that I had that line three times taken out already, because I, too, felt uncomfortable with that - but every time, I put it in again and finally, it survived. Because I do think that while killing the Fellowship, even Estel, was mostly due to necessity (except maybe in Boromir's case - in this spin off universe Bormir never got the opportunity to change his mind and apologize); the killing of the other Elves of Haldir's scout troup was neccesity; but killing Haldir is personal, and the feeling of satisfaction
( ... )
A good chapter, as usual. Legolas seemed almost detached in the earlier ones -- as he must be to do what he did. But now that the Ring is at work and he begins to tire, we can expect a grueling time of it.
I know how this must end, but, like Calenharn, I still cannot help hoping . . .
*cringes* Killing elfkind. I know it's necessary, required pretty much for your AU and this world, but I still *cringe* when I read about it. I can somehow understand his sense of satisfaction in being the one to do Haldir in. To use another and then to brag so about it is a horrible thing as well. Causes a shattering of the spirit, and probably more indeed that I don't even want to contemplate.
Smart move using the Orc arrows, and I'm glad to see Legolas get some sustenance. He's a smart one, and he's gonna need every brain cell he's got to make it on this trip. The Ring is messing with his head in so many ways!
*puts hands over eyes while Legolas is getting his things together in the little boat, while he eases into the chilly water omg, shrinkage!!!, swims across
( ... )
Wow, what a review! And I can easily sympathize with you feeling so protective of him...
*cringes* Killing elfkind. I know it's necessary, required pretty much for your AU and this world, but I still *cringe* when I read about it.
And it does not leaves him unscathed. However, what really made me cringe was the attitude about Haldir and his brothers... But then, he killed Estel already, and the Hobbits. Nothing of this will leave him unscathed, indeed. However, the hate does tend to intensify the hold of the Ring on his mind...
*covers eyes quick again, but peeks out through a crack in my fingers to watch over him while he dries off--so that no Orcs or anything attack him, why else would I be looking!!!!*
*Snort* Why, indeed! But no, he's lucky. No Orcs in evidence at this point-
Thank goodness for little tree roots and elven toes.
Amen. That was a very chilling part to write, because I, of course, was knowing where he was heading at the time...
nd thank goodness for you, that you are sharing this dark but incredibly
( ... )
Hi, Eva! Thank you for your wonderful review and the praise! I'm glad you like this fic, and very ghlad the running in the wrong direction part and the fighting scenes worked!
I have just one little, little point of criticism here....I just love your dark spin-off - but I would also love to see more of the original Mael Gul Fic - when will we see the chapters about Morias Balrog and Lothlorien ? Forgive if I may unnerve you with my asking, I know the writing muses are sometimes ill-humored but I'm just so incredibly curious....
*Blushes in shame* Noted and marked. Unfortunately, snail-tempo is too fast a word to describe how my main story progesses; I seem to write myself from one plot problem to the next with every ten lines or so every second week. And I am still nowwhere near the point I wanted to reach. So, I am working on it; but it may yet take a while. Sorry!
Besides, since I'm at Live Journal too, may I ask you permission to add you to my friends list ? So LJ would keep me up to date and I would never miss it when there's
( ... )
Since I'm catching up with reading this so late, most of the good comments are already made *grins*. I just have to say that I agree the Ring seems to be taking a stronger hold on Legolas, making it easier for him to rationalize the "need" for killing without even the pretense of remorse - and I think he's right to believe that maybe it gains power every time I killed for its purpose.
I'm not sure I can agree with your response to an earlier comment that there is always hope- but in this case, I also fear that hope is a very *two-edged* sword... Because he has already killed Hope, and as I commented before, he has not yet faced the consequences of *that* (and I mean much more than just the physical consequences of not having him around to counteract the spell).
Namarie, as always your review is wonderfully astute and full of insight.
I'm not sure I can agree with your response to an earlier comment that there is always hope- but in this case, I also fear that hope is a very *two-edged* sword...Because he has already killed Hope, and as I commented before, he has not yet faced the consequences of *that* (and I mean much more than just the physical consequences of not having him around to counteract the spell).
You are right, and oh, yes, he will. In spades. But that is it, what I meant with my comment that hope ca be two-edged; for sometimes, not having to live with what one did can be a mercy... although, for an Elf, that is only the beginning of the stay in Mandos. Alone.
Legolas believes he did the right thing, here, because he wished to save his people, and he thought he had no other options for that. It is the tragic of the situation that we, knowing the later chapters in the main story, know that indeed he *had*, that Estel would have offered him an alternative with his promise
( ... )
Comments 11
(The comment has been removed)
Call me prejudiced, but I believe that understanding the moral import of one's own sins is the beginning of redemption. Haldir took pleasure in Legolas's pain long before, and he may well have done the same with other Mirkwood hostages. Legolas has just given Haldir something to think about during his stay in Mandos, however long that may be.
I saw Legolas's emotion not so much as joy in pain, but satisfaction at the poetic justice of the situation. If indeed, Legolas is becoming corrupted, it is a powerful object lesson for us all. Indeed, that is the pont of this story. One cannot subject another to such misery without dire consequences.
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I have to say that I have mixed feelings about Legolas' encounter with Haldir. On the one hand, it is nice (?) that he gets some personal payback before the inevitable end. But on the other hand, it is just a bit... disturbing... to see his satisfaction over Haldir's pain when Haldir realizes that his brothers must be dead. It is not that I can't sympathize - certainly the Wood Elves have suffered plenty, and the desire for revenge is understandable - but it is unnerving.I must confess that I had that line three times taken out already, because I, too, felt uncomfortable with that - but every time, I put it in again and finally, it survived. Because I do think that while killing the Fellowship, even Estel, was mostly due to necessity (except maybe in Boromir's case - in this spin off universe Bormir never got the opportunity to change his mind and apologize); the killing of the other Elves of Haldir's scout troup was neccesity; but killing Haldir is personal, and the feeling of satisfaction ( ... )
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I know how this must end, but, like Calenharn, I still cannot help hoping . . .
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Sigh. Well, there is always hope- but in this case, I also fear that hope is a very *two-edged* sword...
Thank you for the great beta work and for the praise! Due to your input and polishing work, this fic is much better!
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Smart move using the Orc arrows, and I'm glad to see Legolas get some sustenance. He's a smart one, and he's gonna need every brain cell he's got to make it on this trip. The Ring is messing with his head in so many ways!
*puts hands over eyes while Legolas is getting his things together in the little boat, while he eases into the chilly water omg, shrinkage!!!, swims across ( ... )
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Wow, what a review! And I can easily sympathize with you feeling so protective of him...
*cringes* Killing elfkind. I know it's necessary, required pretty much for your AU and this world, but I still *cringe* when I read about it.
And it does not leaves him unscathed. However, what really made me cringe was the attitude about Haldir and his brothers... But then, he killed Estel already, and the Hobbits. Nothing of this will leave him unscathed, indeed.
However, the hate does tend to intensify the hold of the Ring on his mind...
*covers eyes quick again, but peeks out through a crack in my fingers to watch over him while he dries off--so that no Orcs or anything attack him, why else would I be looking!!!!*
*Snort* Why, indeed! But no, he's lucky. No Orcs in evidence at this point-
Thank goodness for little tree roots and elven toes.
Amen. That was a very chilling part to write, because I, of course, was knowing where he was heading at the time...
nd thank goodness for you, that you are sharing this dark but incredibly ( ... )
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I have just one little, little point of criticism here....I just love your dark spin-off - but I would also love to see more of the original Mael Gul Fic - when will we see the chapters about Morias Balrog and Lothlorien ? Forgive if I may unnerve you with my asking, I know the writing muses are sometimes ill-humored but I'm just so incredibly curious....
*Blushes in shame* Noted and marked. Unfortunately, snail-tempo is too fast a word to describe how my main story progesses; I seem to write myself from one plot problem to the next with every ten lines or so every second week. And I am still nowwhere near the point I wanted to reach. So, I am working on it; but it may yet take a while. Sorry!
Besides, since I'm at Live Journal too, may I ask you permission to add you to my friends list ? So LJ would keep me up to date and I would never miss it when there's ( ... )
Reply
I'm not sure I can agree with your response to an earlier comment that there is always hope- but in this case, I also fear that hope is a very *two-edged* sword... Because he has already killed Hope, and as I commented before, he has not yet faced the consequences of *that* (and I mean much more than just the physical consequences of not having him around to counteract the spell).
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I'm not sure I can agree with your response to an earlier comment that there is always hope- but in this case, I also fear that hope is a very *two-edged* sword...Because he has already killed Hope, and as I commented before, he has not yet faced the consequences of *that* (and I mean much more than just the physical consequences of not having him around to counteract the spell).
You are right, and oh, yes, he will. In spades. But that is it, what I meant with my comment that hope ca be two-edged; for sometimes, not having to live with what one did can be a mercy... although, for an Elf, that is only the beginning of the stay in Mandos. Alone.
Legolas believes he did the right thing, here, because he wished to save his people, and he thought he had no other options for that. It is the tragic of the situation that we, knowing the later chapters in the main story, know that indeed he *had*, that Estel would have offered him an alternative with his promise ( ... )
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