I heard a lot of grumbling regarding powerlevel of a particular undead mod this event. But I dont understand why. Maybe there is a key piece of info I am missing
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As i said to you, I think the undead fight is probably exactly what you are saying. Lack of room breaking. You do have to understand however that alot of people aren't used to that concept. (or crazy enough hehe) However, you are right that the fight could have been taken down much easier. I agree whole heartedly
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Shouldnt all of this hate be in game hate tho? Hate for the Dark Seed? The jerk who did that? I am certainly not saying you shouldnt hate him. He is a fucker :) But to be ticked off out of game...that is the part I dont understand and likely never will...
Kelly the bad guy is awesome. I just hate repeatedly that we suceed at one thing and then the NPC tells us that we are still boned. We were told by several different people that the Darkseed said he was going to destroy it anyway and that the Ashere were paid off to attack us every gather from this one forward. Just because they didn't attack this time doesn't mean they won't the next. My view is that the bad guys ALWAYS get to be one step ahead of the good guys. I'd have no problem with them being a step ahead if everyonce and awhile we had that kind of advantage. My views are also a little more skewed then everyone elses since I had to have direct involvement with the Czar plotline. A plot line that a lot of PC's see as we succeded and did the right thing but a group of us feel like we lost everything trying to do that right thing. Everything we did went wrong. Everything. I am simply venting my frustration. I do not think the PC's should always get there way. I think that we should get boned. I just don't think it should be
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I think clue #7 is inaccurate. Plot has specifically trained the PC's that rogue is king, and adepts are meat on the slab. Things like the disarm-chains and avoid-or-die convinced me early on at least that adept is the quick ticket to being dead.
I keep hearing plot talk about all the people who did or didn't choose to go, like we could've brought more people or more warriors. Pretty sure that only five PC's didn't go. Rakasha, Damien, and whatever the hell Jamie was playing, and then Booth and Jeana who came into game after we left. Not that they would've done any good; the mod layout made out 10-to-1 "advantage" a hiderance.
You're right though: this mod was bad tactics on the PC's parts.
However, going from Dark Elf/Spider/Neutral Spirits to this mod to Psionic Dark Elf-rediculousness immediately after made it one big chain of frustration. I genuinely think that a lot of people's problems with the undead encounter were colored by it being sandwiched in between two encounters filled with avoid-or-die.
"However, going from Dark Elf/Spider/Neutral Spirits to this mod to Psionic Dark Elf-rediculousness immediately after made it one big chain of frustration. I genuinely think that a lot of people's problems with the undead encounter were colored by it being sandwiched in between two encounters filled with avoid-or-die."
That makes sense. I wasnt even aware of the dark elf psionics fights. I squishied a bit before the dark elf stuff as a mindless undead swinging for "5 magic" and having 50 body I think it was.
The first round of darkies seemed on the OK side of pretty hard to deal with - spiders are always frustrating and the neutral spirit pushed it close to the edge of giving up - if you could deal with anything else out there (and I don't mean walk through it, just getting by), the neutral spirit would counter you.
After the mod - No spiders that I saw, but Shane either got killed a lot when I wasn't looking or had over 300 psionic endurance; it seemed like we were fighting/stalking the same dark elf throughout. Psi Sleep ain't cheap for Dark Elves to throw. We chased him for a while but when he busted out the rogue on top of that much pool we gave up.
In the early days of SL we had a huge amount of healers, and mostly people headed for wyrm.
The PCs recognized this...and some headed fro offensive skills, or rogue to balance.
But no one cried "imbalance!" Not like they are now.
Dont cry, just adapt. The world wont be delivered to you based on what skills the PCs chose. If you all want to be craftsmen making longswords the world certainly wont suddenly need more longswords. Nay, you will all likely have a very hard time surviving.
In mideval times what happened when skirmishes were one sided because slashing swords were not working against chainmaile? They started making longer, sharper swords so they could pierce. And they trained warriors to use them.
They didnt cry and try to pass honor code dictating that chainmaile was unfair.
I can understand your frustration, one lack of problem people are going to find is that the PCs did not have any "tanks" come this month. There was Logan and then Garr/Talahtria on Saturday to around 10(didnt actually count) Wyrm Characters and lots of mages. But rushing a room does help even ifyou have that many mages, like you said, send in the noobs, just buff them first.
But On the flip side, 3xSpellstrike dispel and 3xSpellstrike Suppress, now that can be ruff, one gets thru and blam no more protectives, or on the suppress no more casting for 10 minutes.
If people said "We had no tanks this month, it made it tough" I would smile and say "yep, that must have been really tough".
But instead I was pulled aside in the tavern and informed multiple times that PCs were crying in game that the encounter was imbalanced. Bullshit. The PCs in game lack of skills, tactics or lack of awareness that they could leave at any moment was the issue.
Just because you cant wipe a mod with maelstroms and front line guys striking for "2 damage" and "7 damage" while in a doorway have nothing to do with balance.
Rant # 1:If i understand this correctly or maybve i am wrong. You said all we needed was an adept and we woudl have smoked the undead mod? If thats the case isnt the mod based on one skill set then? Its had to rush 30+ people into a room that can hold maybe 7 pcs and the 5 pcs. YEs i will admit there were no killing skills on that mod but when you killing blow somone and start to limb them you now have just put one person completely out of a spirit pool
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#1: If it was based on needing an adept...so? But it wasnt. 30 people could have charged...some would have fallen yes. The only risk in a charge of that room was people falling down bleeding (all we did was swing damage). That is a huge cry from before the red button when the risk was oblits, wraths and vorps.
#2: How do you know there will be 25%? You have no idea what goes on inside the marshal boards...none. If things go the way they should, you wont unless provoked by PCs.
#3: yes I agree completely. Which was the point of my post. I dropped the one shot kills from the NPCs to react to teh big red button. But I sure as hell wont be dropping the intellect and challenge of the mods just because PCs dont know there are alternatives to wrath and maelstrom.
Since everyone's commenting...non_shifty_elfJune 11 2007, 20:27:00 UTC
I agree with you on a lot of points, Kelly. I would like to point out that plot kinda taught the pcs that it isn't, in fact, okay to fall down, because the next thing to hit you is more likely to be 'grant death,' followed immediately by an animate spell than it is a cure spell. It definitely depends on the npcs, but that's also an indication of how rough the world was there for a while. I'm also not saying that I've seen any of that since the reset, but it's worth mentioning
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Re: Since everyone's commenting...craven_mageJune 11 2007, 20:41:13 UTC
The grant death/animate thing was indeed way overused. I am trying hard to get NPCs from doing this over and over. I really am. Not to mention the way over-use of psionics. There is only a couple races that use psionics on Qalra oddly enough
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I keep hearing plot talk about all the people who did or didn't choose to go, like we could've brought more people or more warriors. Pretty sure that only five PC's didn't go. Rakasha, Damien, and whatever the hell Jamie was playing, and then Booth and Jeana who came into game after we left. Not that they would've done any good; the mod layout made out 10-to-1 "advantage" a hiderance.
You're right though: this mod was bad tactics on the PC's parts.
However, going from Dark Elf/Spider/Neutral Spirits to this mod to Psionic Dark Elf-rediculousness immediately after made it one big chain of frustration. I genuinely think that a lot of people's problems with the undead encounter were colored by it being sandwiched in between two encounters filled with avoid-or-die.
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That makes sense. I wasnt even aware of the dark elf psionics fights. I squishied a bit before the dark elf stuff as a mindless undead swinging for "5 magic" and having 50 body I think it was.
The others may have been tougher. I wasnt aware.
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After the mod - No spiders that I saw, but Shane either got killed a lot when I wasn't looking or had over 300 psionic endurance; it seemed like we were fighting/stalking the same dark elf throughout. Psi Sleep ain't cheap for Dark Elves to throw. We chased him for a while but when he busted out the rogue on top of that much pool we gave up.
Reply
The PCs recognized this...and some headed fro offensive skills, or rogue to balance.
But no one cried "imbalance!" Not like they are now.
Dont cry, just adapt. The world wont be delivered to you based on what skills the PCs chose. If you all want to be craftsmen making longswords the world certainly wont suddenly need more longswords. Nay, you will all likely have a very hard time surviving.
In mideval times what happened when skirmishes were one sided because slashing swords were not working against chainmaile? They started making longer, sharper swords so they could pierce. And they trained warriors to use them.
They didnt cry and try to pass honor code dictating that chainmaile was unfair.
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But On the flip side, 3xSpellstrike dispel and 3xSpellstrike Suppress, now that can be ruff, one gets thru and blam no more protectives, or on the suppress no more casting for 10 minutes.
just my thoughts
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But instead I was pulled aside in the tavern and informed multiple times that PCs were crying in game that the encounter was imbalanced. Bullshit. The PCs in game lack of skills, tactics or lack of awareness that they could leave at any moment was the issue.
Just because you cant wipe a mod with maelstroms and front line guys striking for "2 damage" and "7 damage" while in a doorway have nothing to do with balance.
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#2: How do you know there will be 25%? You have no idea what goes on inside the marshal boards...none. If things go the way they should, you wont unless provoked by PCs.
#3: yes I agree completely. Which was the point of my post. I dropped the one shot kills from the NPCs to react to teh big red button. But I sure as hell wont be dropping the intellect and challenge of the mods just because PCs dont know there are alternatives to wrath and maelstrom.
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