Choices

[corbyinoz]

I've been reading some great meta posts about show lately. One of the best was by ash48 (I'll put a link in below), wherein she analysed each line of Dean's accusations whilst under the influence of the spectre. (Following 'Asylum' and BUABS, and 'Sex and Violence', and now this one, I think we need RUI - Ranting Under the Influence

Comments

[liliaeth]

Another thing people seem to forget is that the 'grudges' pulled out by the spirit weren't necessarily things that the person carrying the penny would hold in their rational mind. They were these things that the person knows are irrational, knows make no sense and thus either doesn't bring up, or move on from.

The wife knew her husband was hers, they'd been married for 37 years. Rationally, she knew he wouldn't cheat on her. But some small part of her mind hunt on to that old grudge, even though she'd most likely long since forgave him for taking another girl to the prom.

And the same went for all the other possessed persons.

[corbyinoz]

Yes, I completely agree, you've made an excellent point, and that's the gist of Ash48's excellent meta. These are not rational hurts, but hurts they are nonetheless. I don't think we can ever quite expunge the pain done to us by others, can we? Or maybe that's just me. I can let go, completely, if someone apologises, no problem. It just seems to evaporate away. But if I've just sucked it up (and I'm really quite good at that, although I have become much stronger and better in the last decade, recognising that I'm doing *no-one* a service by hiding hurt), even when I tell myself I've moved on, I can forgive this, nothing to see here - there's always a little ember there, ready to spark into flame when something similar occurs. (And why wouldn't it? Since I've kept it to myself, how could the other party know I was hurt, or make amends? Bad anger management, Dean. And, you know. Me).

[candygramme]

I think that lilaeth is dead on with her assessment of the gripes the spectre brought out of Dean. They weren't necessarily current problems for Dean, although they had been once upon a time. However, I think what really has Dean's panties in a knot is the fact that when Sam was gone for a year Dean was never able to accept and move on, and it seems to him that Sam was. So Dean feels yet again that he's the one who loves, and Sam is the one who is loved. He's jealous of the 'girl' whose name he's heard but won't say, because he doesn't want to accept any part of anyone who would take his Sammy away from him

[corbyinoz]

Ooh, I didn't think of it from the POV that Dean will eat his heart out and Sam will do nothing, so 'you need them, more than they need you' comes back to bite him on the bum again...

And yes, the jealousy is striking, isn't it. I've never seen Sam so downright bitchy as he was at the end there. "Yeah, well, I'll go and kill your sparkly new friend, so there. What do ya think about that?" And all the time he's so *hurt*, and Dean's so *hurt*, and they're both glaring at each other across the Impala...

You know I won't be able to see SPN until Sunday afternoon this week? ARGH! But it's for an excellent cause, so I can cope with it. (Just).

[candygramme]

Looking forward with bated breath to your thoughts on the new ep.

[viridescence]

I love your meta. It always gives me tons of thinky thoughts. I'd expound on them, but alas, I'm thumbing this on my phone, which would take me more time than I have. So I'll just say that I love your brain (and not in a creepy, zombie way). ;-)

♡

[corbyinoz]

Creepy zombie way ahoy! Don't be zombie-ist. Thank you for loving my brain. I love yours too, so, you know, now that the apocalypse has been averted again, we can share the brain-love that dare not speak its name.

[viridescence]

LOL, that's a relief. ♥

[tabaqui]

Yes yes, all this!!

I really thing that, somehow, not only do Show fans forget that Dean is a huge ball of emotional issues that have *never* had a chance to be resolved (on top of PTSD) but that SAM is exactly the same. Sam was in hell, Sam had no soul and did terrible things, Sam saw his loved ones die.... He's as fucked up as Dean ever was/is, and to expect him to be more rational or make more sense (or be more...empathetic) is doing him a disservice.

Love your meta. :)

[corbyinoz]

Thank you,hon. Yes, it's that false expectation established at the start, the notion that Sam was emotionally mature and Dean immature, that sometimes gets in the way of people's perceptions, I think. Dean has actually made some huge strides, and big calls. It was very mature, very big-hearted of him to call Sam at the end of S4 (and it's one of the many tragedies in the show that Sam got such a horrible version of it). One of the commenters on Ash48's site actually brought up that phone call as a possible reason for Sam's utter fury at Dean being friend with Benny, which I think is an excellent point.

[tabaqui]

Ooh, interesting. I'd love for that to pop up again. :)

[runedgirl]

Really good points - Show has encompassed such a long and twisted history at this point, it's sometimes hard to step back and see the progression clearly, and that it does make sense when you gain some perspective.

The point you make about Dean being terribly hurt by Soulless Sam's choices is even hard for us, the viewers, to get our heads around sometimes. He looked just like Sam, and we at first -- like Dean -- knew he was acting strangely, but had no clue why. So we -- and Dean -- still remember many of those hurts as something that Sam did. Similarly, when Dean says such hurtful things to Sam, he looks like Dean, sounds like Dean, has Dean's memories -- so it's hard not to attribute those words to Dean, forgetting that he's under the influence. Both boys have had to endure that sort of dynamic repeatedly, saying and hearing things they never would have otherwise. What havoc that must wreak, making the trauma of repeated losses even worse.

[corbyinoz]

Oh, yes! It's something that people whose loved ones have mental issues - such as schizophrenia - must go through. Some days they're someone I can love and trust, some days they're not - but they look the same, they sound the same. In RL, I think both Sam and Dean would have succumbed by now to their personal demons. In fact, there's been at least two instances that would send many people into a PSTD breakdown in each season. I love that it seems as though Jeremy Carver and co are harking back in their thinking... good stuff, because there's plenty of trauma (and undeclared anger, un-remedied pain) to go around, for both of them.

Thank you for your comments! You summed it all up beautifully.