Comments | copyright1983: LJ Idol Season 9, Week 13: Open Topic

LJ Idol Season 9, Week 13: Open Topic

Jun 30, 2014 07:12

Middle GroundI have friends on Facebook who span the political spectrum. Some are very conservative, bashing Obama at every turn and posting patriotic pictures and Bible verses every chance they get. Others are highly liberal, blasting the Republican Congress for being ineffective and sharing economic studies and pictures from Pride parades all ( Read more... )

dude where's my soapbox, in the line of fire, open mike, first person, pen to paper

Comments 50

cheshire23 June 30 2014, 17:54:27 UTC

Most of the time, I would agree with this.

But here, too, there is a middle ground. As I said when discussing this very matter within the church community I was part of at the time:

It's hard to have an open and honest dialogue with people who, quite literally, want me dead.

At the time, there were still plenty of people regularly on my local news quoting Leviticus to say that anyone who had been in a same-sex relationship should be put to death. And, well, I don't want to die. As a teenager, I was suicidal over this very thing - I got better.

So yes, I DO think there is a point where "but there's a middle ground!" is totally inappropriate. And some people in some of these alleged dialogues have reached that point.

That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered. I'm tempted to counter that in those situations, it's even more important to try to reach out to the other side, take the high road, and find some commonality. Except I'm not entirely sure I believe that. :)

Thanks for reading!

cheshire23 July 1 2014, 23:28:08 UTC

About the only thing that seems to even marginally have a chance of working in that situation has been to let them get to know me as a person before they find out that I'm not straight. And even then, if they're so far gone that they truly believe that I ought to be stoned to death...well, I'm not going to be looking for common ground there, I'm going to be running the heck away because that is not a safe place for me to be. There IS no high road, and I'm NOT going to debate that for my own safety's sake ( ... )

You're right that I've never experienced that sort of disagreement myself, though I've known people who have. But it's hard to really understand how that feels without having experienced it myself.

Maybe I'm being stubborn in my belief that there has to be a way to reach these people. Leaving them to just be wrong doesn't seem very humane to me--they may be wrong, but they're still people.

gratefuladdict June 30 2014, 20:59:14 UTC

I believe there is middle ground to be had on many issues, but like cheshire23 has commented, I do think many issues are black and white when it comes to how the question is dealt with from a political standpoint.

I completely agree, however, that you can't throw out the baby with the bath water. No matter how much I may disagree with them, I do my best to listen without bias, and to concede a point if it's made, even if it weakens my case. At the end of the day, I debate these issues because I want to understand, and to be understood, and yes, to persuade. And sometimes, I am instead persuaded, because I am listening.

These are complex issues, and affect many of so deeply. I hope that the more that we listen, the more we will all learn.

And I think one of the root causes of the problem is that, in a lot of ways, we all fail to listen. Myself sometimes included. :) Thanks for reading!

kickthehobbit July 1 2014, 04:14:24 UTC

Echoing what else has been said here-I'd love to think that there is a middle ground and that we can all talk about things like adults without resorting to yelling and screaming or turning the conversation into an echo chamber.

At the same time, there are a few issues that, quite simply put, if you're wrong on, you're wrong. Period.

The trouble is, both sides feel that way, and they can't both be right. How, then, do we actually create a constructive dialogue about those issues? I don't have an answer, but I'm open to suggestions. :)

Thanks for reading!

kickthehobbit July 1 2014, 16:49:58 UTC

That's such a cop-out, though-"both sides feel they're right".

Let me put it a little more bluntly:

I refuse to engage with anyone who sees me as a lesser human being (if human at all) because of the color of my skin or the fact that I am a woman.

We don't create a "constructive dialog" with those that are actively trying to harm us. I'm not going to go to the trolls over in the comment section on every piece about feminism, ever, and go, "whoa, hey guys, maybe we shouldn't call women bitches and sluts, amirite?"

We ignore them. We educate those that we can. We do our best to end ignorance. We don't engage them. Engaging them makes them believe that their opinions-their incredibly toxic and actively harmful opinions-have some validity to them. And they don't. Period, full stop.

I agree that there are people out there with dangerous, wrong-headed ideas about a lot of things. I disagree, however, that there's no way to reach those people.

I'm not sure what the solution is, though. Ignoring them and leaving them to their own echo chamber just entrenches them further into their positions. I agree that giving those positions validity is also counterproductive, but repeatedly telling people they're wrong doesn't seem to work either.

I don't know. It just feels like there has to be a way through.

Thread 7

bleodswean July 1 2014, 15:15:36 UTC

"blood sport". So apt and true.

Sadly so. Thanks for reading!

kagomeshuko July 1 2014, 20:23:22 UTC

In general, I'm not a political person. Of course there are issues on which I have my opinions. I'm not ambivalent about everything. However, I don't like politics. I'll say what I believe about certain issues. It's not what others say or what politicians say. Of course, I'll have my opinions about some political things. I want preach about anything here - but Obamacare, gay marriage, renewable energy sources - those are some of the major things for me.

Of course, I know not everybody will agree. And that's okay.

Yet, I know, there are people who won't agree that will say it is not okay for me to have a different opinion.

It's still an open question, I think, whether the problem with political discourse is the politics or the discourse. But neither seems particularly healthy at the moment.

Thanks for reading!