Sunday evening Bible study?

[sarafinapekkala]

My favorite way to study the Bible is simply to take a passage and discuss its meaning. It's not something I've seen a lot of in this community (not that I don't like the things we normally discuss), so I thought it might be nice to just talk about a particular passage. If there's a lot of interest, we could continue to do this with other

Comments

[chordoflife]

The metaphor of wheat and chaff has always been a striking feature to me: God seeks to seperate the wheat ( that which is good for consumption) from the Chaff ( which is meaningless and simply waste). This whole passage is a subtle ( or maybe not so subtle) message about how we live our lives. God asks for us to seek righteousness and good and to leave behind the trappings of sin that are useless to our lives of faith.

Side Comment: Do you practice Lectio Divina? Our church has been doing this regularly and it's quite good as a way of centering yourself within the scripture.

[sarafinapekkala]

I think it's also a good metaphor for this world. The wheat and the chaff (or, in many places, the wheat and the weeds) are together in the same field, and they're only separated at the harvest.

I don't practice Lectio Divina, but after looking it up I think I'll try it. (But oh, getting up that early >:(.)

[tempus_aeterna]

As far as verse one, my discussion in several Hebrew classes says that it is the opposite of what you think. The English is translated a little funky which is part of the problem. I'm trying to find my old Hebrew notebook with the notes from this psalm in it

[sarafinapekkala]

What might be offered as a better one based upon the Hebrew connotations is a person who becomes unrighteous moves through a path of being entrenched in the smaller unrighteousness (sitting in the path of mockers) to toying with larger unrighteousness (walking with the wicked). Or that it is just as bad to toy with the wicked (i.e. do just one or two really unrighteous things) as it is to be entrenched with the mockers (sitting on the fence of unrighteousness). I personally like the second one better, but can see either.

Thanks so much! I want to interpret stuff correctly, but I know that to do that really well one has to go to the source languages, or know people like you who have done so. :)

If you are talking later Christian interpretation the righteous/wicked distinction is different.

What would you say that distinction is in Christian interpretation?

In my opinion this psalm is about the value of studying/reciting the Bible. It's personal criteria for someone who is righteous is someone who meditates on and delights in the

[tempus_aeterna]

- I didn't realize the connotation of the words until I went to the Hebrew. I totally understand the misinterpretation if one is reading in English and I think in the Latin as well. I've even seen the explanation you gave stated in a few Christian interpretation books. As far as connotation mistakes, I totally see where this one comes from. Personally I think the second interpretation that I presented is much more meaningful than a "both verb and object are getting worse" interpretation. The idea that someone doing one wicked thing is equivalent to someone doing many insolent things is much more interesting than showing the progression down the "bad" road theologically

[jadeejf]

Wow- this is a great idea for a post :D Many thanks for providing me with something to contemplate this evening...

I think my biggest question centers on verse 5- it says that the wicked will not stand in the judgment, but isn't that exactly what the Bible later describes God doing on the day of judgment? Doesn't he call everyone up and then seperate the wheat and the chaff, so to speak? Maybe I'm just not reading it correctly, but hopefully someone else has thought about this and has a good answer for me :)

[sarafinapekkala]

I'm glad you liked the post.

Hmm... well, looking at some of the other translations, the New Living Translation says They will be condemned at the time of judgment, and the Amplified Bible says Therefore the wicked [those disobedient and living without God] shall not stand [justified] in the judgment. The impression I get is that here the word "stand" means "pass", in the sense of a test; the wicked will "fail" the judgment instead of "passing" it like the righteous would. (Are there any better words for that? Hm, I start to see the sort of problems translators must have.)

[tempus_aeterna]

I will say one note on the two translations that you used here. Both of them are not direct translations. They are paraphrases of translations. Their intent is not to be literal to the Hebrew or Greek. They are filled with glaring errors as far as accurate translations. If you are looking to what a particular phrase means in Hebrew, go see the NRSV, the REB, the JPS (for Hebrew Bible). The New Living Translation, the Message, the Amplified Bible might all be great to read, and I don't suggest you throw them out, but if you are looking for literal meaning you should use a more literal translation.

[sarafinapekkala]

Yeah, I know. Pretty much all the direct (or more direct) translations just had it as "stand", so I had to branch out a bit. :) While more indirect translations are more flawed and have greater scope for bias, I sometimes find them useful for getting the feel of what a passage means; usually in that case, as here, I look up more than one indirect translation to minimize those problems. If they don't seem to line up, or if I want less ambiguity, I'll go to a commentary or something like that (or, if it's a noun, maybe a lexicon); I skimmed one or two of the ones at Crosswalk, and they seemed to support reading "stand" in roughly the way you and tutal put it. (Though apparently there's also a question of what "judgment" is being referred to here, which hadn't even occurred to me. You guys are awesome :).)

[bojojoti]

Thought provoking post.

In verse 3, when the man is being compared to a tree, it says that his leaf won't wither and he will prosper. Would prospering mean to produce fruit? If so, wouldn't it mean for the man that he would have manifestations of the good in his life?

Thank you for this study.

[blue_eye]

I loved reading this thread! This is a great idea for a Sunday evening...even if it is Monday now for me.