I totally agree. :) As much as I love protective big brother Dean - and I love protective little brother Sam as well, because that's how they work in my world, protective of each other - the point of this season is that they both grow into a mature, equal relationship, because that is what will make them stronger. I think some people are just stuck on the versions of the characters in their head and don't move forward with the characters as presented on screen. Dean says in 'The End' that Sam is the 2nd best hunter on the planet, and that's in keeping with trusting his brother to have his back on the hunt and treating him like an equal partner on the job. It's obvious that Dean thinks his brother is capable on his own, and I prefer a Dean who takes pride in Sam's capability any day over a Dean who thinks his adult brother needs constant coddling.
I think some people are just stuck on the versions of the characters in their head and don't move forward with the characters as presented on screen.
Yes, and I'm not sure these versions even really existed as such, back then. It's like the "I want the brothers to get along like they did in season one." But they already have issues in season one! They fought, they separated, they didn't see agree on everything. As for the protectiveness, Dean was certainly more protective in season one, but as the time Sam was also a lot less experemented when it came to the hunt, and even then Dean wasn't unwilling to trust Sam with his back.
I love the brothers being protective of each other, I won't lie, but I want them to be protective because they love each other and care about each other, and not because they think the other isn't capable to hold his own.
the point of this season is that they both grow into a mature, equal relationship, because that is what will make them stronger.Yes, exactly. That's what I'm in for - I don't want any silly
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Yeah, I think at one point or another we all fell for the unhealthy co-dependency of the boys (S2/3), but the characters itself have grown from there and that's good. I think some fans have limited their views of the characters to a point where they miss a lot of the more complex dynamics between them. I've seen many fan reactions that irritate me, like 'Look, Sam and Dean have a fight, they must not care for each other anymore' or 'See, Dean says he pictures himself happy with Lisa, that must mean that he doesn't picture his future with Sam in it anymore' or 'Mean, mean Sam, he left for Stanford, obviously that means he never, ever loved Dean'. /sigh
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Yeah, I think at one point or another we all fell for the unhealthy co-dependency of the boys (S2/3)
Oh, yes, there's undeniably something attractive in this idea, and we're all guilty of it, me included. But I'm ready for them to move on. It bugs me that each time we saw hints of character growth, like when they separated in 5.02, there were people to exclaim "oh no, now they won't be unhealthily codependent anymore!" (fortunately, I also saw some people speak up to say: "codependence is a sickness, it harms people, it is not good!") It's like they thought it meant that Sam and Dean wouldn't love each other anymore, or that they would start having a "normal" sibling relationship where they would see each other twice a year and have lives completely separated (which I don't think is even possible; too many things happened). And yes, I'm not counting the number of times I've seen people point to one event or another as "proof" that Sam or Dean didn't love the other anymore. But their relation is very complicated, which makes painful
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Oh, really people are bemoaning this? Not that it surprises me, everything Dean does lately is not enough.
Clearly fandom has been stuck into fannish interpretation for too long. The pet-peeve of mine is how some refuse to see Dean as being more than Sam's big brother and uber-protector and when he isn't or he does/thinks about something that deviates from that ONLY ROLE then there's a cry of OMG! character assasination. Show isn't unsubtle most of the time, but it has shown over and over that both Dean and Sam are good at their job are men that aren't going to cry over a small cut and would probably laugh at the amount of cuddling we so often wish to give them.
Well, this was just a few people commenting on a single reaction, but what pissed me off is that it's a continuing problem. If I was masochistic and I looked for it, I'm sure I could find other alike reactions.
The pet-peeve of mine is how some refuse to see Dean as being more than Sam's big brother and uber-protector and when he isn't or he does/thinks about something that deviates from that ONLY ROLE then there's a cry of OMG! character assasination.
Oh, God, I know! Dean isn't a one note character. There's a lot to him than that (fortunately, or I wouldn't be as interested in the show). And I'm not only angry on Dean's behalf, but also on Sam's. The way I see Sam, he does not need that. I think Sam still counts on his brother's protection for some things, even as he wants to be more independant, but certainly not like that.
but it has shown over and over that both Dean and Sam are good at their job are men that aren't going to cry over a small cut and would probably laugh at the amount of cuddling we so often wish to give them
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Nice post. I had to stop reading commentaries on the episode, not because of this, but because I had a personal reaction to the religious stuff, and just didn't really want to see people apologizing for it. Which was, like I said, a personal reaction, nothing to do with not respecting other reactions/opinions.
Anyway--I completely agree with what you say above. I think this is one of the ways in which the show if often tougher-minded than fic (as it often is about the darker side of family relationships). It's kind of the best thing and the worst thing about SPN that Sam and Dean are so defined in terms of each other.
This is why I love fic where Dean (or, less often, Sam) is on his own.
I understand turning away from certain discussions - I do it too, not because I don't think people aren't entitled to have their opinion, but because sometimes I can't see it, it's wearing me out.
I think this is one of the ways in which the show if often tougher-minded than fic (as it often is about the darker side of family relationships)
Yes, I've noticed that too. The show is often more darker than the majority of the fics, maybe we want so badly things to go well between them, which I can understand. But I also like that the show doesn't shy away from some issues. They love each other, but with the childhood they had, and the life they lead, it's not surprising that they have a huge pile of issues. And love isn't always enough.
This is why I love fic where Dean (or, less often, Sam) is on his own.When I was still writing exclusively in French, and I had a number of fics under my belt, I noticed that in a lot of my fics, Sam and Dean got separated at some point. I think it's because I love to explore as they do on their own,
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This would be part of why I don't read many episode reactions any more. Happily, I haven't seen the viewpoint you mentioned, but I've seen all kinds of other viewpoints on Dean where it does seem like if he is anything other than totally uber-protective and totally focused on Sam, and completely badass and snarky and forgiving and uncomplaining, then he doesn't care about Sam and his character is being written WRONG and he's a whiner who needs to just get over his issues already. God forbid the boys have any growth and you make a wonderful point here, that Dean stepping in front of Sam is them continuing to play the same roles that Sam himself has said won't work anymore. I don't think for a second this new balance means they won't fight for each other and won't look after each other or love each other at all less and I don't like when the show makes them seem like strangers. But when I watched this episode, Sam&Dean seemed very partner-ish and together.
I really should learn how to limit myself, because it only makes me angry and frustrated. I know the places where I can read episode reactions that are "safe" - that is from people who (even if I don't always agree with them) I know are reasonable and I can discuss with, and don't have a view of the characters so different from mine that it makes me want to stab a pencil in my eye (like you, or any of the people who commented on this post). Yes, difference of opinion is good and all, but when I want to harm myself, it's probably time to step back. :)
but I've seen all kinds of other viewpoints on Dean where it does seem like if he is anything other than totally uber-protective and totally focused on Sam, and completely badass and snarky and forgiving and uncomplaining, then he doesn't care about Sam and his character is being written WRONG and he's a whiner who needs to just get over his issues already.Yes, and if the reaction in question was an isolated problem it would not piss me off like that - but this is part of a view of Dean
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Yes, and I'm not sure these versions even really existed as such, back then. It's like the "I want the brothers to get along like they did in season one." But they already have issues in season one! They fought, they separated, they didn't see agree on everything. As for the protectiveness, Dean was certainly more protective in season one, but as the time Sam was also a lot less experemented when it came to the hunt, and even then Dean wasn't unwilling to trust Sam with his back.
I love the brothers being protective of each other, I won't lie, but I want them to be protective because they love each other and care about each other, and not because they think the other isn't capable to hold his own.
the point of this season is that they both grow into a mature, equal relationship, because that is what will make them stronger.Yes, exactly. That's what I'm in for - I don't want any silly ( ... )
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Oh, yes, there's undeniably something attractive in this idea, and we're all guilty of it, me included. But I'm ready for them to move on. It bugs me that each time we saw hints of character growth, like when they separated in 5.02, there were people to exclaim "oh no, now they won't be unhealthily codependent anymore!" (fortunately, I also saw some people speak up to say: "codependence is a sickness, it harms people, it is not good!") It's like they thought it meant that Sam and Dean wouldn't love each other anymore, or that they would start having a "normal" sibling relationship where they would see each other twice a year and have lives completely separated (which I don't think is even possible; too many things happened). And yes, I'm not counting the number of times I've seen people point to one event or another as "proof" that Sam or Dean didn't love the other anymore. But their relation is very complicated, which makes painful ( ... )
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Clearly fandom has been stuck into fannish interpretation for too long. The pet-peeve of mine is how some refuse to see Dean as being more than Sam's big brother and uber-protector and when he isn't or he does/thinks about something that deviates from that ONLY ROLE then there's a cry of OMG! character assasination.
Show isn't unsubtle most of the time, but it has shown over and over that both Dean and Sam are good at their job are men that aren't going to cry over a small cut and would probably laugh at the amount of cuddling we so often wish to give them.
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The pet-peeve of mine is how some refuse to see Dean as being more than Sam's big brother and uber-protector and when he isn't or he does/thinks about something that deviates from that ONLY ROLE then there's a cry of OMG! character assasination.
Oh, God, I know! Dean isn't a one note character. There's a lot to him than that (fortunately, or I wouldn't be as interested in the show). And I'm not only angry on Dean's behalf, but also on Sam's. The way I see Sam, he does not need that. I think Sam still counts on his brother's protection for some things, even as he wants to be more independant, but certainly not like that.
but it has shown over and over that both Dean and Sam are good at their job are men that aren't going to cry over a small cut and would probably laugh at the amount of cuddling we so often wish to give them ( ... )
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Anyway--I completely agree with what you say above. I think this is one of the ways in which the show if often tougher-minded than fic (as it often is about the darker side of family relationships). It's kind of the best thing and the worst thing about SPN that Sam and Dean are so defined in terms of each other.
This is why I love fic where Dean (or, less often, Sam) is on his own.
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I think this is one of the ways in which the show if often tougher-minded than fic (as it often is about the darker side of family relationships)
Yes, I've noticed that too. The show is often more darker than the majority of the fics, maybe we want so badly things to go well between them, which I can understand. But I also like that the show doesn't shy away from some issues. They love each other, but with the childhood they had, and the life they lead, it's not surprising that they have a huge pile of issues. And love isn't always enough.
This is why I love fic where Dean (or, less often, Sam) is on his own.When I was still writing exclusively in French, and I had a number of fics under my belt, I noticed that in a lot of my fics, Sam and Dean got separated at some point. I think it's because I love to explore as they do on their own, ( ... )
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but I've seen all kinds of other viewpoints on Dean where it does seem like if he is anything other than totally uber-protective and totally focused on Sam, and completely badass and snarky and forgiving and uncomplaining, then he doesn't care about Sam and his character is being written WRONG and he's a whiner who needs to just get over his issues already.Yes, and if the reaction in question was an isolated problem it would not piss me off like that - but this is part of a view of Dean ( ... )
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