mitzvot in Conservative Judaism

[cellio]

I was recently given a photocopy of the article "Conservative Judaism in an Age of Democracy" by Rabbi Harold Kushner. (I think it came from Conservative Judaism magazine. I can't find an online copy.) This theologically-attuned Reform Jew found it a fascinating read.

Comments

[geekosaur]

I think the point is that it's the Conservative movement that needs to be reinvented. That said, Kushner's answer isn't it - how does it then differentiate itself from the serious/committed part of Reform?

(Then again, I'm still waiting for that to slam headlong into "classical" Reform.)

[cellio]

I think the point is that it's the Conservative movement that needs to be reinvented.

That's one possibility. Another (and I'm hardly the first person to say this, which is not the same as advocating it, just so I'm clear) is "some go left, some go right", and the movement fizzles. That is, the halachically-minded members might tend to drift to Orthodox movements, and the autonomy-minded members might tend to drift to Reform (or maybe Renewal or Reconstructionism).

The Reform movement is certainly not monolithic in this regard, of course. I am well aware of being in a minority within my movement; too many people's entire thesis is "I'm Reform so I don't have to do that". Sure, they're Reform and they don't have to do that; what I challenge is the "so".

(And, yeah, "classical" Reform is yet another force, though one that I suspect is quite literally dying out.)

[tigerbright]

Conservatism was actually founded in response to the Reform movement - the idea was to have a more strongly religious option that wasn't Orthodoxy. I know at least two people who would have been unable to complete their conversion without the Conservative movement.

I myself have huge issues with the Reform liturgy, though not with the movement. But then, my favorite mix is Orthodox liturgy and egalitarian leyning, for worship.

rambly but hopefully worthwhile

[sanpaku]

You know, I was just musing about this today; I frequently do. I am sitting here in my hotel room with my menorah brought on the plane. No one is here to watch me light the candles. Why do I do it, even when it is a pain in the ass to do so

Re: rambly but hopefully worthwhile

[zevabe]

Judaism is an ethical cafeteria in which everyone does what they personally feel is meaningful.

Since I put myself pretty firmly in the other camp, I'm curious about this position. Is there any other -ism (and yes I know Judaism is more than that) in which people do such different things and claim they are practicing that -ism? That was not meant as an attack question, but a stir the pot, see what response it gets question. The less original question (I hope the first one is original at least) is: Is there a limit to where a person can go with this 'I'm doing what I think is meaningful' and still call it Judaism?

Re: rambly but hopefully worthwhile

[sanpaku]

I think the variety is built into many systems -- how else do you get hermit-like monks and crusading warriors killing people for Christ within the same system? In terms of limits, I think that for how individual people behave, an anthropological answer would be no -- people are quite able to tolerate inconsistency and to hold conflicting ideas in their head at the same time

Re: rambly but hopefully worthwhile

[zevabe]

But why? If they are doing what they feel is ethically correct, and basing it on their understanding of the Hebrew Bible (which they read to predict Jesus), why is that outside your ethical cafetera in a way that other behaviors are not? I understand the ethical cafeteria school of thought wants Judaism to be a big tent. But at some point the tent gets too big, no? To have a meaningful philosophy there must be some things that we do believe, and some things we do NOT believe.

Saying "your philosophy is not compatible with our set of beliefs. You are outside the fold." doesn't have to be value-laden. We think we are right and we can respect your right to think something else, but not to say it under our banner.

part 2

[sanpaku]

(truncated because I exceeded the character limit in the other comment

Re: part 2

[cellio]

Thank you for the thoughtful comments

Re: part 2

[cellio]

And as you point out, the ethical mitzvot are not optional to Reform.

Whoops. That was actually mbarr below. Sorry.

Re: part 2

[sanpaku]

I think you're right that "post-halachic" Judaism is another name for Reform or Reconstructionism. As far as learning the halacha, look at Kushner's maneuver about why we perform the mitzvot -- personal relevance supersedes an explanation grounded in history or theology. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, but then you have Kaplan's "voice not a veto" approach to halacha, ie Reconstructionism. But on some level what he's calling for is giving primacy to the personal relevance message over the obligation message; I don't see how that doesn't reduce halacha to a historical or homiletical curiosity. (And, since I spent a lot of pixels yesterday and today over why I'm not orthodox, I'll say that this is what I find impossible about Reform

[mbarr]

Yep- he gave the keynote 2 years ago at the Biennial USCJ Convention. Menachem Creditor also spoke on the same basic topic.. and I was arguing then that they called their result Reform. They really annoyed the non-egal folks and some (very few) of the more traditional, but egal folks. AKA -- the folks that actually have shabbos communities, and keep kosher, in the movement

[gnomi]

Having grown up in the Conservative movement while shifting toward the Orthodox, I have been watching the shifting sands in the Conservative movement for many years. I have long been of the belief that, at some point in the future, there will no longer be a Conservative movement, with the right-leaning Conservative joining the left-leaning Orthodox camp and the left-leaning Conservative joining the right-leaning Reform. And it bothers me, because that will leave a large number of people un- or under-represented in the major Jewish movements.

Not that I can completely classify myself within a movement. When pressed, I say I'm Modern Orthodox, but even that definition is hard to pinpoint, with many who identify as Modern Orthodox having divergent definitions of what it means to *be* Modern Orthodox.