Oh my. I hadn't really thought about it; I had the sense Leo was hiding something but I was merely hoping it was that he's actually female. XD; I hadn't noticed all those things. (I hope he's not an actual traitor - at least not to Eliot. :<)
I don't think Leo is a traitor to Eliot - there's too much care in that relationship for it to be totally faked. I think his motivations might not be as...apparent? as we've been led to believe and that he has an interesting backstory, but I do feel like the bond with Eliot is real.
(But now that I think about it...if Leo is just a girl, then I'm pretty sure Eliot knows. But if Leo is hiding something else that Eliot isn't aware of...eek. o_o If nothing else, this chapter shows that Eliot doesn't forgive perceived betrayal very easily.)
Pandora Hearts is one of those series where there's so many possible 'what ifs' and conspiracies lurking that I have tried to not allow myself to guess at all. xD;
If Leo wasn't shown as a kid with Elliot there would be even more theories... >>; Whatever is going on with the Phillip kid could be connected to him as well, since there's obviously some wrong going on there.
This chapter above all others made me suspicious though. Sablier is like... the biggest place for a character to rack up suspicious points. Haha.
I will just fall off my chair laughing if the part of fandom that thinks he's actually a girl is right though. The man does have a better waist than I do. xD *miff*
And I still think Gil being poisoned was set up or Vincent-related cuz why would a headhunter poison someone instead of lopping off their head...;;;;
BUT ECK WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO THEORIZE. *chokes self*
THEORIZING IS FUNceiteanJanuary 25 2010, 23:25:09 UTC
...was he shown as a kid with Eliot in the manga? I thought that was only the anime?
*cracks up* I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit envious of Leo's waist. He has curves! ...maybe. Tailoring can hide a lot of things. <.<
...that is a good point about the poisoning thing. Huh. There was at least one attempt where as assassin tried to cut him up and instead cut up a bystander, but yeah. That poison thing does seem odd.
The poison thing only works if someone is working together with Headhunter. :/ I don't think Headhunter itself would poison somebody. It requires too much patience and subtlety, not to mention coming close enough to slip the poison somewhere. (To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if some third party was taking advantage of the Headhunter incidents and trying to get rid of Nightray contractor at that time.) So, now it's only Eliot, Vanessa, and the adopted ones left. Poor Elly... With three older brothers, he was never meant to rule.
Leo is extremely suspicious, but I refuse to overthink >.> There's just not enough data available, and with PH being a series with so many loose threads, clues, mind-boggling fake info and whatnot, I would only hurt myself if I tried. xD
That said, I'm a bit paranoid about the characters. For example, I'd like Ada to be more than she seems. I can't help to think that she has an ulterior motive in dating Vincent. *shrugs* Dunno, she just seemed repulsed when he looked like he was trying to kiss her.
ooo. um. i remember reading it? give me a few and i'll see if i can find it. i think maybe reim said it after the cheshire arc - it would have to be after that arc anyway since that's the first time shelly was mentioned so prominently. maybe in the barma arc...
Yeah, QoH/Headhunter doesn't really seem like the 'planning' type and poisoning someone definitely requires some sort of plan.
With three older brothers, he was never meant to rule.
yes, yes. And I sort of wonder if that's why Leo is being so hard on him, why Eliot allows it - the boy has to get into some serious shape to be a worthy heir and he probably doesn't have a whole lot of time.
I can't help to think that she has an ulterior motive in dating Vincent. *shrugs*
this! It would be so awesome if it turned out Ada was playing Vincent. x_x And it really did seem like something else was going on underneath the surface for Ada, at least from my perspective. Though what motive she could possibly have is a mystery.
I've checked Reim's commentary right after Cheshire arc and there's nothing there, either in the manga (Black Abyss) or the anime (Iron Wolf - rather trustworthy imho). I've read about "absolute loyalty" on Break's character profile on myanimelist and now I wonder whether it's canon. :/ The same text is repeated on tons of websites over the internet. ._.
Ada actually looks like she's trying to do something with Vincent. To me, she appears a bit clumsy in her efforts. Vincent notices it when he says, "there's no sympathy in her eyes". Ada is the natural target to anyone who'd like to know more about the Vessalius. She's a cute, pampered, silly girl, treated and looking like a pretty doll. But it can also be her great ace in the sleeve, if she lets everyone think her harmless and she plays it right. :3 I can only hope that all Vessalius are sly beasts and Vincent underestimates her >D No idea what she wants though. It doesn't help that she hasn't really asked him anything during that short snippet of conversation. Heh. Ada is
( ... )
I looked and I can't din it either. :/ I think the impression came from a lot of things throne together? Like the 'your mother would kill me' comment, and the panel showing Break kneeling at Shelly's feet, asking for forgiveness/pardon to go in search of the truth. And then there was Break destroying Alice's memories in order to save Sharon's life. There's clearly a bond of loyalty to the Rainsworths, though I can't find any text that says 'absolute loyalty.'
I read it last night on my iPhone (err, at 5 am), so I'm sure I missed a lot of vital information, but~:
1) AHAHAH HEY VINCENT, MISSED YOU AND YOUR EVIL FANTASIES. I'd like to see Gil angry, too. Do eeeet. 2) On second thought, don't -- or just be very smart about it. Please. 3) Bb!Elliot hopping around like the cute thing that he is so ♥. Why is Vincent always in that outfit as a kid? 4) Poisoning sounded odd to me, too -- but I guess JM can't have his head, like, half sliced or something to have him survive the attack. Poison seems fitting more. 5) Maybe JM will play the betrayal card again with Elliot through Leo because she's mean and it will be interesting that's the only way I can see anything major happening with Leo. He's particularly the only one he depends on/believes in, generally, so it'll be a big big blow to Elliot.
eta: And this is a reaction to both of your entries, I'm just slow. sorry /o\
Ah, Vincent. orz He's such a roller coaster - first he seems creepy, and then he seems creepier. But then there's some backstory and you feel sorry for him, right up until he does something that makes you scream PEDO!, and then there's some more sympathetic backstory, but right after that, he's back to being a creeper...
I'm honestly starting to think Vincent hates Gilbert. But it would be a hate twisted with love, which would make it so much more disturbing.
Why is Vincent always in that outfit as a kid?
I read something somewhere that that style of dress (meaning, a literal dress) was very common for boys in that general time period in Europe. Boys would wear dresses for a long time, sometimes until they reached puberty. And there is no way Gilbert and Vincent were 14-13 by the time of Oz's disappearance. -_- I refuse to believe it.
The more I think about the poisoning, the more puzzling it becomes. o_O
it would be so, so interesting. Something has to happen with Leo; betrayal looks like a very possible option. :/
First, I definitely agree with what you said about Elliot. I think this chapter explained a lot when it comes to his personality. XD;
As for Leo... well, the more I read of the manga and your posts, the more I'm starting that he really might be hiding something important. When you list them like that there really are a lot of hints and points to take into consideration, unless Mochizuki is trying to make him look suspicious on purpose just to fool the readers or something.
Heh, I didn't even put in the crackier dream theory. I figure the list as it is points at Leo hiding something. If the dream theory is true, then it points at Leo having a very specific connection to Sablier (the dreams of the massacre, knowing how to fight off Zwei, knowing the passage ways in the very very very old building, possibly being recognized by Alice and Lottie - ah, forgot to put that one in, too...)
But if all of this is just a fake out JM is setting up, I will be head-desking ALL DAY LONG. /o\
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I don't think Leo is a traitor to Eliot - there's too much care in that relationship for it to be totally faked. I think his motivations might not be as...apparent? as we've been led to believe and that he has an interesting backstory, but I do feel like the bond with Eliot is real.
(But now that I think about it...if Leo is just a girl, then I'm pretty sure Eliot knows. But if Leo is hiding something else that Eliot isn't aware of...eek. o_o If nothing else, this chapter shows that Eliot doesn't forgive perceived betrayal very easily.)
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If Leo wasn't shown as a kid with Elliot there would be even more theories... >>; Whatever is going on with the Phillip kid could be connected to him as well, since there's obviously some wrong going on there.
This chapter above all others made me suspicious though. Sablier is like... the biggest place for a character to rack up suspicious points. Haha.
I will just fall off my chair laughing if the part of fandom that thinks he's actually a girl is right though. The man does have a better waist than I do. xD *miff*
And I still think Gil being poisoned was set up or Vincent-related cuz why would a headhunter poison someone instead of lopping off their head...;;;;
BUT ECK WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO THEORIZE. *chokes self*
Reply
*cracks up* I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit envious of Leo's waist. He has curves! ...maybe. Tailoring can hide a lot of things. <.<
...that is a good point about the poisoning thing. Huh. There was at least one attempt where as assassin tried to cut him up and instead cut up a bystander, but yeah. That poison thing does seem odd.
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So, now it's only Eliot, Vanessa, and the adopted ones left. Poor Elly... With three older brothers, he was never meant to rule.
Leo is extremely suspicious, but I refuse to overthink >.> There's just not enough data available, and with PH being a series with so many loose threads, clues, mind-boggling fake info and whatnot, I would only hurt myself if I tried. xD
That said, I'm a bit paranoid about the characters. For example, I'd like Ada to be more than she seems. I can't help to think that she has an ulterior motive in dating Vincent. *shrugs* Dunno, she just seemed repulsed when he looked like he was trying to kiss her.
Hey ( ... )
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Yeah, QoH/Headhunter doesn't really seem like the 'planning' type and poisoning someone definitely requires some sort of plan.
With three older brothers, he was never meant to rule.
yes, yes. And I sort of wonder if that's why Leo is being so hard on him, why Eliot allows it - the boy has to get into some serious shape to be a worthy heir and he probably doesn't have a whole lot of time.
I can't help to think that she has an ulterior motive in dating Vincent. *shrugs*
this! It would be so awesome if it turned out Ada was playing Vincent. x_x And it really did seem like something else was going on underneath the surface for Ada, at least from my perspective. Though what motive she could possibly have is a mystery.
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Ada actually looks like she's trying to do something with Vincent. To me, she appears a bit clumsy in her efforts. Vincent notices it when he says, "there's no sympathy in her eyes".
Ada is the natural target to anyone who'd like to know more about the Vessalius. She's a cute, pampered, silly girl, treated and looking like a pretty doll. But it can also be her great ace in the sleeve, if she lets everyone think her harmless and she plays it right. :3 I can only hope that all Vessalius are sly beasts and Vincent underestimates her >D
No idea what she wants though. It doesn't help that she hasn't really asked him anything during that short snippet of conversation.
Heh. Ada is ( ... )
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I have much hope for Ada. >D
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1) AHAHAH HEY VINCENT, MISSED YOU AND YOUR EVIL FANTASIES. I'd like to see Gil angry, too. Do eeeet.
2) On second thought, don't -- or just be very smart about it. Please.
3) Bb!Elliot hopping around like the cute thing that he is so ♥. Why is Vincent always in that outfit as a kid?
4) Poisoning sounded odd to me, too -- but I guess JM can't have his head, like, half sliced or something to have him survive the attack. Poison seems fitting more.
5) Maybe JM will play the betrayal card again with Elliot through Leo because she's mean and it will be interesting that's the only way I can see anything major happening with Leo. He's particularly the only one he depends on/believes in, generally, so it'll be a big big blow to Elliot.
eta: And this is a reaction to both of your entries, I'm just slow. sorry /o\
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I'm honestly starting to think Vincent hates Gilbert. But it would be a hate twisted with love, which would make it so much more disturbing.
Why is Vincent always in that outfit as a kid?
I read something somewhere that that style of dress (meaning, a literal dress) was very common for boys in that general time period in Europe. Boys would wear dresses for a long time, sometimes until they reached puberty. And there is no way Gilbert and Vincent were 14-13 by the time of Oz's disappearance. -_- I refuse to believe it.
The more I think about the poisoning, the more puzzling it becomes. o_O
it would be so, so interesting. Something has to happen with Leo; betrayal looks like a very possible option. :/
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As for Leo... well, the more I read of the manga and your posts, the more I'm starting that he really might be hiding something important. When you list them like that there really are a lot of hints and points to take into consideration, unless Mochizuki is trying to make him look suspicious on purpose just to fool the readers or something.
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But if all of this is just a fake out JM is setting up, I will be head-desking ALL DAY LONG. /o\
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