I watched a chunk of this before I got annoyed and hopped ship. Why can't Lucifer be just fucking evil and menacing? HE'S THE DEVIL, FOR GOD'S SAKE (literally). I didn't see it was a Buckleming episode until later, but of course. The lack of specificity about the past was maddening. You're right, why didn't anyone tell Jack about Lucifer? And let Lucifer get away with his crap? What did Gabriel have to be killed...again? (I think he's not.) He was one of the only fun ones left! Also, Gowena! But hell, I would love Sowena/Ram (oo!). She'd ride Sam like he was a Clydesdale, if you know what I mean. And I think you do.
The whole bringing everybody back was so incredibly ridiculous, as was much of the episode. Can both Lucifer and Cas die, please? They've become annoying and pointless. If Lucifer still had any balls I'd be slightly more invested. Also, the Dean/Sam/death thing is so off-kilter I can't even.
You know, I like morally ambiguous in his own mind Lucifer. I like that he doesn't think he's evil, that he thinks he had a good reason for everything he's done. I just don't like that the audience is apparently supposed to feel the same way. Morally ambiguous foes are good and realistic unless they happen to be THE LITERAL DEVIL.
Everyone looks happy except for Jack, who is very conspicuously still sad and still alone. Why isn't someone with him? Why are these two men who supposedly love him like a son, and this one man who grudgingly appreciates him, and this woman who's been fighting with him for months, why are they all ignoring him?
THIS!!!
What I fear will happen: no one will give Jack a straight answer about what happened to Lucifer and when Lucifer comes back he will tell Jack that Sam doomed him to die. And then Jack will ask Sam if this is true, and Sam won't give a straight answer, he'll just look somber. And then Jack will say his family has turned on him, and he'll run straight to Lucifer and join Team Evil.
What I couldn't figure out was why Lucifer didn't use the one, true reason that he's evil, the stupid Mark. It's actually legitimate AND canonical. God locked Amara away and thought Lucifer was strong and good enough to resist the Darkness that would leak through and he was wrong. Heck, the story was it took God and all four Archangels to lock Amara up, so Gabriel was around and knew about the Mark and Lucifer taking it. Shouldn't it have come up alongside all the rationalizations Lucifer was spouting. Don't get me wrong, I hated "the Mark made me do it", but it is part of canon but somehow we're back to Lucifer was just evil and like a cancer from the get go. Which is fine, but totally dumps an entire storyline. Heck Gabriel could have gone with "you were a good man/angel once, but the Mark corrupted you so much that now... and do the rest of his why Lucifer can't be redeemed speech
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Yes, the Mark! We've completely ignored that plot, haven't we? Although, was it canon or headcanon that the Mark makes you more of what you are, so if Lucifer was a little proud and selfish, the Mark turned him into a raging narcissist? So we could say didn't turn him evil, it just amplified it.
Yes, God said that it amplified what was already there, which makes the question why the heck did he trust Lucifer with it? However, I will argue that many people are jealous of/don't like their siblings, but don't actively work to corrupt, destroy and kill them. Without the Mark, Lucifer would have stayed a self centered jealous jerk, but would he have taken the actively evil role that he did without it? I'm not sure he would have.
Basically, God gave Lucifer a substance that amped up his anger and encouraged dark thinking and actions. Lucifer needs to be held accountable,and probably needs to be kept away from people and the world, but it's the one true argument that helps excuse or at least explain his worst actions.
You know I love your reviews not only for your commentary which basically says what I'm thinking throughout the episodes, albeit in a much funnier way, but I love your comments under your lovely pics too, so win win
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You are too kind. And I can't BELIEVE they didn't write that hug in. Although I should... Didn't they do the same thing when Cas got back to the bunker in 12.01 and found Dean alive? Didn't the cast have to point out that he would have been overjoyed to see him?
Jensen clarified at JIBCon today that the hug was scripted but that it was more of a light hearted, quick hug rather than the more poignant one they ended up with. You can read what they said about it in the panel summary I posted from sammyhale.
The guys usually end up interpreting a scene like that the way they think their characters would react, thank goodness. We're lucky to have them.
If only we could redo the dialog in certain spots with Dean's words in response to Mary saying she knew what they went through to get to her no she doesn't and everything that you wrote about how Jack gets told the truth about Lucifer, specifically what he did to Sam there were so many places the truth could have been told by various people...and of course everyone stands around while the rift is closing--proximity to the rift causes dumbness, it happened in the Wayward Sisters episode too, in the other AU AU...You hit the nail on the head with the comment about the show falling into soap opera territory because of no one being capable of straight talk (or checking in on the traumatized, most vulnerable super-powered adolescent
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God, the standing-around-the-rift scene, just watching Gabriel die when the whole reason he fought Michael was to give them time to escape? AAARRRRGGGHHH. So stupid. You must be right about it causing stupidity in the immediate proximity.
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The whole bringing everybody back was so incredibly ridiculous, as was much of the episode. Can both Lucifer and Cas die, please? They've become annoying and pointless. If Lucifer still had any balls I'd be slightly more invested. Also, the Dean/Sam/death thing is so off-kilter I can't even.
ETA: You need to fix your formatting.
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THIS!!!
What I fear will happen: no one will give Jack a straight answer about what happened to Lucifer and when Lucifer comes back he will tell Jack that Sam doomed him to die. And then Jack will ask Sam if this is true, and Sam won't give a straight answer, he'll just look somber. And then Jack will say his family has turned on him, and he'll run straight to Lucifer and join Team Evil.
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Basically, God gave Lucifer a substance that amped up his anger and encouraged dark thinking and actions. Lucifer needs to be held accountable,and probably needs to be kept away from people and the world, but it's the one true argument that helps excuse or at least explain his worst actions.
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The guys usually end up interpreting a scene like that the way they think their characters would react, thank goodness. We're lucky to have them.
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