Comments | caranfindel: On further review: More thoughts about 12.12

caranfindel

On further review: More thoughts about 12.12

Feb 20, 2017 08:23

I've been thinking a lot about Mary's actions this season, particularly in 12.12. I came down pretty hard on her, but some Tumblr conversations have got me rethinking things.

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meta, supernatural, fic: mary winchester, 12.12 stuck in the middle (with you), on further review

Comments 9

amypond45 February 20 2017, 18:03:01 UTC

I think you make a good point about Mary hating the hunting life. As you say, we know canonically that she didn't want her kids raised in the life, and she never told John about hunting. She's grim and determined as a hunter, but she never seems to take any real satisfaction in doing it. The "saving people" part of the hunter's life seems to be missing from her thinking ( ... )

caranfindel February 20 2017, 19:08:49 UTC

That's true. She doesn't trust them as in, I believe they have my best interests at heart. She trusts them as in, I don't think they'd stab me in the back. And she's probably wrong!

quickreaver February 20 2017, 21:48:18 UTC

I like this post; I've been confused about this (and my feelings towards Mary) as well ( ... )

caranfindel February 21 2017, 02:45:52 UTC

No, they didn't find out about Magda. But I understand about remembering something and not being sure if it was canon :)

I'm pretty sure Mary does remember Heaven. She said something about leaving her babies behind. Or maybe that was fan fiction. ;)

quickreaver February 21 2017, 04:42:06 UTC

Darn it, fanfic, stop being so GOOD!

z_publicizes February 21 2017, 16:03:56 UTC

This is one of those cases where I think I can see what the writers are going for but that only makes the flaws in the execution more glaring. The Big Plan endgame is pretty likely, if only for structural pattern reasons. Mary is keeping it a secret because...that's what you do with shady decisions on SPN. That said, she's got an established history of keeping big secrets from her loved ones. She didn't tell John anything about her hunting background or deal with a demon or occasional hunting excursions. I'm sure we're supposed to see her as well-enough-intentioned but wrongheaded on this--and I like that they're writing her as fallible, with complicated motivations. In theory ( ... )

caranfindel February 21 2017, 21:18:02 UTC

Oh yeah, if they'd let us gradually figure out that the BMoL were evil, that would have been so much better. But then I would have missed out on wet bloody scruffy single-torn-layer barefoot Sam, and that would have been a tragedy.

Anyway. I think it makes sense for Sam, at least, to accept the "she's just one bad apple" excuse regarding Toni Bevell. Dean should have been less likely, especially considering what they did to Sam.

z_publicizes February 21 2017, 22:11:56 UTC

Well, they could've had Sam abducted by some other antagonist--the Thule, a few surviving Stein second cousins, another group of rogue demons/angels, whatever--who would've given us wet bloody scruffy single-torn-layer barefoot Sam. The BMoL could then have rescued him and earned a measure of good will from both characters and audience. Think how the angels were set up in season four.This would also have established the BMoL as competent at taking out threats while sowing hints at how they can be insidiously manipulative. Maybe we'd get a reveal down the line that they'd set Sam up to be imperiled so they could play rescuer and earn his trust ( ... )

casey679 February 25 2017, 07:47:05 UTC

I think Mary's been treated a little harshly by a lot of the fandom. A lot of folks wanted her to be a good mom, but also her own person, and it was as hard on us as it was on Sam and Dean when being her own person required her going off to figure out what to do with herself. It was hard not to resent her for it the way Dean clearly does.

But the glimpses they gave us of her past - still hunting despite her family, keeping all of her hunting activities hidden from John during that time, buying food from the Piggly Wiggly rather than cooking it - make her current actions seem pretty consistent. She wants to remove the need for hunting, she's reeling from the loss of her husband/4-year-old/baby (and the realization that all three of them have been tortured in Hell as a result of it), not to mention that if the boys actually told her everything that happened, she knows hunting took her whole family a second time, and was ultimately responsible for John's father's disappearance and death. The supernatural - all the residents of heaven, ( ... )