I have had this conversation so many times

[candid]

First, from the Saddleback Forum:WARREN: Now, you’ve made no doubts about your faith in Jesus Christ. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to you to trust in Christ? And what does that mean to you on a daily basis? What does that really look like

Comments

[candid]

I'll give you one guess, and if you're smart you'll guess "to piss off Sarah".

[infopractical]

Oh, shit, that's funny. I may have to quote you. Nah, I'll just repeat it and take credit.

[altamira16]

All Christians believe in the cosmic Jewish Zombie. Only some believe that the rapture is something that will happen in their lifetime. Only some are in communities where the politics is an extension of the local church. Only some believe that you have to throw yourself on the floor in fake epileptic fits and talk in tongues to your cosmic Jewish Zombie.

[candid]

And only some believe in "Black Liberation Theology".

[altamira16]

Here is a list of Fundamental Truths of the Assembly of God churches. That is the one that Sarah Palin attended that people have the most problems with.

There has been stuff tying the Assembly of God churches to something Pentacostal so some of the above was about Pentacostals in general, but if Palin is a Pentacostal in my view she is a strange one. Pentacostals tend to speak in tongues, not allow their women to wear pants (Palin does), not allow women to wear skirts that expose the knees (Palin does), and not all women to cut their hair. I don't think they watch television either. Or this is my experience with the Pentacostals that I attended school with.

You also have a ton of video of Palin speaking before people at the church. You don't have so much of Obama doing that. A casual believer is not typically invited to speak before the church.

[infrogmation]

My impression of Clinton was that he was indeed a serious believing Christian. It seemed especially evident to me during the Lewinsky scandal when his actions seemed to be affected by the internal belief that he didn't just screw up, but had committed "sin". (To his double misfortune-- of course he could have weathered the whole thing better if he'd had the conviction to say his private life was no one else's business from the start.)

From Obama's statements he certainly seems a believing Christian to me. Interesting to hear you've talked to people who think he's a "closet atheist"; I've seen nothing to suggest that and suspect it is just wishful projection (perhaps the flip side of the coin of those who believe he's a "SeKrit Muslim Ter'rist").

Obama's Christianity seems a less wacko brand than Palin's.

We're a long way from having our choice of candidates who dismiss the subject of the supernatural with a dismissive laugh and a quote from Dawkins or Bertie Russell.

[candid]

Just to be clear, I wasn't insinuating that Clinton wasn't a believing Christian (I have no opinion on the topic), only that he managed to get elected in 1992 without (as best I can remember) asserting specific details about Christian theology, belying the claim that doing so is necessary.

Obama's Christianity seems a less wacko brand than Palin's.

I dunno, I find Black Liberation Theology pretty wacko.

We're a long way from having our choice of candidates who dismiss the subject of the supernatural with a dismissive laugh and a quote from Dawkins or Bertie Russell.

Agreed. This was (part of) my argument to the good folks on the "Atheists at MSFT" mailing list who accused me of being a "troll" and wanted to kick me off the list for the twin crimes of "not supporting Obama" and "comparing Obama's theistic pronouncements with Palin's".

[infopractical]

This was (part of) my argument to the good folks on the "Atheists at MSFT" mailing list who accused me of being a "troll" and wanted to kick me off the list for the twin crimes of "not supporting Obama" and "comparing Obama's theistic pronouncements with Palin's".

When educated people begin behaving like this, I start to feel like what's wrong with the world has found a new gear.

[boffo]

How can Obama simultaneously be a Christian and the Messiah?

[anne_keckler]

No, Jesus was Jewish. Christian means "follower of Christ," and he was hardly a follower of himself.

[anne_keckler]

Nobody said he was the Christian (or Jewish, depending on how you look at it) Messiah. ;-)