I heard that line as -"Her man Frank killed HIM." (meaning Luther). It flows with the rest of the narrative. Wife disappears. Husband thinks she is dead (I think the brother mentioned they were still looking for her). Husband thinks Luther killed wife. Husband kills Luther. Wife is discovered to be a suicide. Oopsie-Woopsie, we killed the wrong guy, but we're all buddies here, so let's cover the murder up. I admit the brother forgiving Luther's murderers seems odd and unloving, but time and time again, the things that turn into ghosts and bad supernatural things are those that can't let go of what has happened to them and it has been 20 years since Luther's death. Maybe, at some point the brother decided to let go of the anger and hate
( ... )
-Hey! That mill looks familiar... Did they do an interview from there once? It's the backdrop for Jared's "why does Jensen cry my name in his sleep" interview.
... Why the hell are you trying to apply a consistent timeline to Supernatural?! *eyes you*
Meta (which I will post on my own eventually) Oooo, hallucination! "They know what you did." Ah hah! A murder and a cover-up. In my opinion, the They-Were-All-Dicks theory is just a theory. When in fact they were all involved in the death and cover-up of an innocent.
Which, you'll recall, is damn near exactly the type of person Bloody Mary went after. In that episode, Sam was covering up the premonitions he'd had about Jess and we never found out why Dean's eyes bledSam's "involvement" in Jess's death is no longer a secret. He wouldn't be infected. Whatever Dean's hiding is still hidden and he's fair game
( ... )
I heard that line as -"Her man Frank killed HIM." (meaning Luther).
I just re-listened and he actually says "Her man Frank killed Luther." Which does indeed make a hell of a lot more sense and jives with the narrative.
The point of burning the bones, is to destroy what is LEFT of the body.
I kind of thought the 'fire and salt' thing was to purify the bones, as both have some lore as agents of purification. Fire doesn't destroy bone, not unless it's a lot hotter than could be managed on a recently exhumed corpse.
Your meta has smoothed over some of my problems. So thanks for writing this.
I totally thought of you when we got YED!Sam, and all your theories. You do realize that it means that you and DEAN think alike, right? :-D
Fandom has been making a lot of fuss about the bible clutching, but geez. Apart from the whole Castiel business (he even specifically told Dean to read the bible, now that I think about it) I know that if I was in that situation I'd be clutching any holy book to my chest, hallucinated or not, including the Coran, Buddist scrolls, Shinto... er, what do they have, scrolls too? Hell, I'd probably clutch one of those scientology books if that was all I had at hand
( ... )
I had Friday off, so I spent all day on this. *facepalm*
I totally thought of you when we got YED!Sam, and all your theories. You do realize that it means that you and DEAN think alike, right?
Hee! That thought gives me warm fuzzies, although it really, really shouldn't.
Fandom has been making a lot of fuss about the bible clutching, but geez.
Oh, I'll bet. Sigh.
The "dick" thing: apparently Kripke DOESN'T think Dean is a dick, and felt so strongly about it that he went on the net and announced publicy that it was just poorly executed.
Hee! I saw the unspoilered version of that! Hehe. I think we make him nervous. *evil grin* And, yeah, poorly executed is a phrase I'd use to describe it.
The key is "uses fear".
See, and I don't get that from Dean at all. I've had people in my life who do use fear as a weapon pretty much my entire life, and Dean doesn't, IMO. From my perspective, "uses fear" rang even falser than 'Dean's a dick'.
Sam is immune to demon plaugue, a little ghost illness is
( ... )
I'd so love to watch an episode with you and talk as it goes. I gotta rewatch this, and look for that coverup of Sam's tat. Among other things ;)
Heh. I'm getting a 'Quincy' credits flash back from the way this is being shot with the coroner and Sam and Dean on the other side of the table. Oh yeah...was half expecting one of them to hit the floor, like the cop did in the Quincy opener :)
Fleeing the incredibly tiny dog with the little pink bow! The only dog I've ever been deliberately bitten by was a chihuahua. So I've got a prejudice against small yappy dogs and a deep abiding love for big dogs that bark but rarely bite.
Pieces of Eight by Styx? Nah, if he's got a Styx album, it's Equinox. Cause it's got "Born for Adventure" on it. "Cause I was born, born for adventure...women, whiskey and sin. No, never surrender...Live by the sword till the end!... They spoke of my capture, And of my escape. They called it misfortune, but I called it fate." Damn, now I want an SPN vid to that song. I also thought 8 hours in the car was way
( ... )
I'd so love to watch an episode with you and talk as it goes.
Oooooo, no you wouldn't! I'd be miserable company during a first viewing! I don't talk during episodes at all, just scrawl notes, and am very much a growly bear if there are any distractions. The cat even knows to stay away when the note-taking table comes out! XD
After the first watch through I'd be much more social. *nods*
Oh yeah...was half expecting one of them to hit the floor, like the cop did in the Quincy opener :)
The implication that they might was definitely there. But they're too tough for that. *nods*
Nah, if he's got a Styx album, it's Equinox.
I mainly picked "Pieces of Eight" because of Renegade, but in retrospect that wasn't being played on the Impala tape-deck, that was over-top music, so it could very well be Equinox instead.
Then was Dean infected at the autopsy or by the Sheriff?
I'd say autopsy, because, really, they should have caught anything the guy had from the unsanitary things going on there. :-P
Maybe the vice principal and bouncer were people Luther perceived as being mean to him? Mentally disabled kids and bullied kids tend to get shunted away by the school system, and maybe the bouncer turned him away too many times for being scary? That would make this a standard pattern of revenge, would it not? (Except that the Dean infection doesn't hold, but then maybe that was a bodily fluids thing in some way, and the ghost just didn't know that would happen? So that Dean's near-death was an accident?) And maybe Luther took the wedding ring off Frank's body as a memento? Pretending he, Luther, was married to Frank's wife?
Sam being immune to all supernatural illnesses has possibilities…
Re: metaing…caffienekittyOctober 25 2008, 22:07:56 UTC
Maybe the vice principal and bouncer were people Luther perceived as being mean to him?
Maybe mean to people like him. This is twenty years after Luther's death, so I doubt they were people he'd ever met. I didn't necessarily get that Luther was mentally disabled, although I can see that the implication was there.
Sam being immune to all supernatural illnesses has possibilities…
Re: metaing…quettalindeOctober 26 2008, 07:34:47 UTC
This is twenty years after Luther's death, so I doubt they were people he'd ever met.
Not necessarily. If Luther was in his late 20s or early 30s when he died, he'd be in his 40s or 50s now-the age of authority figures such as vice principals. The VP could've been a classmate. That doesn't explain the bouncer, but your idea of "people like him" could work, or the bouncer could be just as accidental as Dean.
I really should stop trying to impose logic on the show, shouldn't I? ^^6
I'm so glad this helped your enjoyment of the episode! :-D
I think you're right about this being an episode to take another look at with later information about what's going on. Thinking too hard seems to be something I have a problem avoiding, unfortunately. :-D
Comments 21
I heard that line as -"Her man Frank killed HIM." (meaning Luther). It flows with the rest of the narrative. Wife disappears. Husband thinks she is dead (I think the brother mentioned they were still looking for her). Husband thinks Luther killed wife. Husband kills Luther. Wife is discovered to be a suicide. Oopsie-Woopsie, we killed the wrong guy, but we're all buddies here, so let's cover the murder up. I admit the brother forgiving Luther's murderers seems odd and unloving, but time and time again, the things that turn into ghosts and bad supernatural things are those that can't let go of what has happened to them and it has been 20 years since Luther's death. Maybe, at some point the brother decided to let go of the anger and hate ( ... )
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It's the backdrop for Jared's "why does Jensen cry my name in his sleep" interview.
... Why the hell are you trying to apply a consistent timeline to Supernatural?! *eyes you*
Meta (which I will post on my own eventually)
Oooo, hallucination! "They know what you did." Ah hah! A murder and a cover-up.
In my opinion, the They-Were-All-Dicks theory is just a theory. When in fact they were all involved in the death and cover-up of an innocent.
Which, you'll recall, is damn near exactly the type of person Bloody Mary went after. In that episode, Sam was covering up the premonitions he'd had about Jess and we never found out why Dean's eyes bledSam's "involvement" in Jess's death is no longer a secret. He wouldn't be infected. Whatever Dean's hiding is still hidden and he's fair game ( ... )
Reply
Ahh. Yeah. *facepalm*
... Why the hell are you trying to apply a consistent timeline to Supernatural?! *eyes you*
It's just they were doing so well this season so far! I thought they were on the wagon for the cracked out timelines! *heavy sigh*
When in fact they were all involved in the death and cover-up of an innocent.
Hm. Doesn't speak well for the Vice-Principal and the Bouncer, but yeah, I can see that.
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I just re-listened and he actually says "Her man Frank killed Luther." Which does indeed make a hell of a lot more sense and jives with the narrative.
The point of burning the bones, is to destroy what is LEFT of the body.
I kind of thought the 'fire and salt' thing was to purify the bones, as both have some lore as agents of purification. Fire doesn't destroy bone, not unless it's a lot hotter than could be managed on a recently exhumed corpse.
Your meta has smoothed over some of my problems. So thanks for writing this.
Cool, I'm glad it helped. :-)
Reply
I totally thought of you when we got YED!Sam, and all your theories. You do realize that it means that you and DEAN think alike, right? :-D
Fandom has been making a lot of fuss about the bible clutching, but geez. Apart from the whole Castiel business (he even specifically told Dean to read the bible, now that I think about it) I know that if I was in that situation I'd be clutching any holy book to my chest, hallucinated or not, including the Coran, Buddist scrolls, Shinto... er, what do they have, scrolls too? Hell, I'd probably clutch one of those scientology books if that was all I had at hand ( ... )
Reply
I had Friday off, so I spent all day on this. *facepalm*
I totally thought of you when we got YED!Sam, and all your theories. You do realize that it means that you and DEAN think alike, right?
Hee! That thought gives me warm fuzzies, although it really, really shouldn't.
Fandom has been making a lot of fuss about the bible clutching, but geez.
Oh, I'll bet. Sigh.
The "dick" thing: apparently Kripke DOESN'T think Dean is a dick, and felt so strongly about it that he went on the net and announced publicy that it was just poorly executed.
Hee! I saw the unspoilered version of that! Hehe. I think we make him nervous. *evil grin* And, yeah, poorly executed is a phrase I'd use to describe it.
The key is "uses fear".
See, and I don't get that from Dean at all. I've had people in my life who do use fear as a weapon pretty much my entire life, and Dean doesn't, IMO. From my perspective, "uses fear" rang even falser than 'Dean's a dick'.
Sam is immune to demon plaugue, a little ghost illness is ( ... )
Reply
Heh. I'm getting a 'Quincy' credits flash back from the way this is being shot with the coroner and Sam and Dean on the other side of the table. Oh yeah...was half expecting one of them to hit the floor, like the cop did in the Quincy opener :)
Fleeing the incredibly tiny dog with the little pink bow! The only dog I've ever been deliberately bitten by was a chihuahua. So I've got a prejudice against small yappy dogs and a deep abiding love for big dogs that bark but rarely bite.
Pieces of Eight by Styx? Nah, if he's got a Styx album, it's Equinox. Cause it's got "Born for Adventure" on it. "Cause I was born, born for adventure...women, whiskey and sin. No, never surrender...Live by the sword till the end!... They spoke of my capture, And of my escape. They called it misfortune, but I called it fate." Damn, now I want an SPN vid to that song. I also thought 8 hours in the car was way ( ... )
Reply
Oooooo, no you wouldn't! I'd be miserable company during a first viewing! I don't talk during episodes at all, just scrawl notes, and am very much a growly bear if there are any distractions. The cat even knows to stay away when the note-taking table comes out! XD
After the first watch through I'd be much more social. *nods*
Oh yeah...was half expecting one of them to hit the floor, like the cop did in the Quincy opener :)
The implication that they might was definitely there. But they're too tough for that. *nods*
Nah, if he's got a Styx album, it's Equinox.
I mainly picked "Pieces of Eight" because of Renegade, but in retrospect that wasn't being played on the Impala tape-deck, that was over-top music, so it could very well be Equinox instead.
Then was Dean infected at the autopsy or by the Sheriff?
I'd say autopsy, because, really, they should have caught anything the guy had from the unsanitary things going on there. :-P
Lilith is so well done by that child ( ... )
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Sam being immune to all supernatural illnesses has possibilities…
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Maybe mean to people like him. This is twenty years after Luther's death, so I doubt they were people he'd ever met. I didn't necessarily get that Luther was mentally disabled, although I can see that the implication was there.
Sam being immune to all supernatural illnesses has possibilities…
Oh, definitely.
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Not necessarily. If Luther was in his late 20s or early 30s when he died, he'd be in his 40s or 50s now-the age of authority figures such as vice principals. The VP could've been a classmate. That doesn't explain the bouncer, but your idea of "people like him" could work, or the bouncer could be just as accidental as Dean.
I really should stop trying to impose logic on the show, shouldn't I? ^^6
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You've just made me enjoy this ep so much. I think I love this. *hugs the review close*
This may be(come) an episode that makes sense down the road. At the moment, however, I prefer to try and not think too hard about it.
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I think you're right about this being an episode to take another look at with later information about what's going on. Thinking too hard seems to be something I have a problem avoiding, unfortunately. :-D
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