on gender

[bubblingbeebles]

over here i was talking about the gender option on google+, and a nagging question arose while i was explaining my opinion. the prompt is that google+ has a "gender" option for your profile that (a) is unavoidably public and (b) offers only the choices "male", "female", and "other".

my complaint with the system is that while i am male, i am not

Comments

[redglasses]

Part of me is glad of the third option; part is upset that it's explicitly othering.

If you were so emotionally involved with a guy, why wouldn't you have sex with him? Would you have sex with a (pre- or non-op) trans man? A (same deal) trans woman?

[bubblingbeebles]

Part of me is glad of the third option; part is upset that it's explicitly othering.

yeah. in the first linked post i pointed out that "other" is not possibly useful no matter what the reason to choose it. i accept not enumerating non-cis options on the grounds that they're the vast minority, but to not be allowed to say what you are instead is... i haven't got a word for it. it would be like a race option (on forms that still have those) that said "white / black / asian / other".

If you were so emotionally involved with a guy, why wouldn't you have sex with him? Would you have sex with a (pre- or non-op) trans man? A (same deal) trans woman?good question, and i don't entirely know. possibly my sex drive (and emotional closeness drive) has just not developed enough to have rearranged, so to speak, the "straight" traits that i grew up with before ever questioning them

[bubblingbeebles]

the first impression also got me, and it wasn't encouraged by the incidental fact that my send feedback tool didn't work. that aside, though,

personally, i was only half-swayed by "Hi, I'm Randall, and I'm a MAN."

okay, the organisation of the sign-up page itself was pretty dumb, but at least it's not reflected by, say, "Ben Blum | Male" in big letters at the top of everything i do on the site. if somebody asks me what my gender is, i have no trouble saying "male". all google did at the sign-up page was ask, which itself is fine, and the information is put pretty unobtrusively on my profile, so somebody who goes to view it is in effect also asking for it.

the problem is the situation/timing: my profile is my personal space to put things that describe me, and this doesn't - it's just junk, but i have to include it for some reason. it's like also having to fill out my eye colour and my horoscope sign, only with a bit of social stigma attached as well.

[joshua_]

(apropos of something other than the main point of your post)

I read the "over here", and in particular, the first section of the first post there, and I felt almost shocked at the level of blame conveyed by the author. He says: Enter the professional victim, the high-conflict person (HCP) and/or the abusive personality disordered individual [...].
What an insulting way to put that. In this, he almost seems to imply to me that the "professional victim" wants to behave like that; that she is almost excited by the prospect of putting another human being under incredible strain. People who behave like that, and in abusive fashions in general, are very sick -- both men and women. Both deserve sympathy and compassion -- the impulses that they suffer from are not something I would wish on anyone

[bubblingbeebles]

i agree, and thanks for putting it into these words. when i read it i noticed something in the writing i could only describe as "outrage-inducing".

that's an amazing news story.

a few other lines from it strike me, in particular: "it’s unusual for someone to be able to articulate and exhibit such constructive feelings this early on in the process"this is exactly what the blog post is failing to do. the "in our society, men also have it rough" idea is also fairly young, as far as i've seen

[zacharyzsparks]

"all it does is raise awareness - with extreme words and gestures - that society isn't just women-oppressing, it's everyone-oppressing."

Yes, and this is a point that I wish more people would recognize. But I wish they would then go on to recognize that in our society, while everyone is oppressed, not everyone is oppressed *equally*. Being a man is a privilege in our society. Privileged people can still be victims, but it's important to recognize both, not just one or the other. I'm still not sure of the best way to do so, though.

[bubblingbeebles]

yes, the addendum to that sentence which i didn't say since i wanted to end the comment on a strong note was: "(though i won't speak to the relative distribution thereof, as it's probably still skewed.)"

people don't like when a disease runs in multiple places. we want to be able to point fingers, and say "men are responsible for all that's wrong in our society", or "women are responsible ...". a lot of breath is wasted.

[vortacist]

So, I was actually reading this post while at an airport with crappy wireless -- which meant I didn't read any of the things you linked to, just the post itself.

I had a really strong emotional reaction to it: I almost cried when I finished reading it. I don't know that I could entirely articulate why, but here are some of the things I thought about:

- Generally I don't strongly identify as "woman" either. I have the body I have, it works the way it works. I tend to more strongly identify as "woman" in the context of my field (i.e., encouraging more women and other underrepresented groups to get into computer science). I also tend to notice it more when I am the only woman in a group of guys (in a work setting) or when I realize that someone isn't taking me seriously because of the way I look.

- Growing up, I struggled more with the ways in which I conformed to stereotypes. I didn't want to be a stereotypical girl, liking "girly" things...but the fact that I liked to cook and sew was sometimes very distressing to me.

-but

[bubblingbeebles]

the fact that I liked to cook and sew was sometimes very distressing to me.

i'm starting to hear/think more about things like this. it's very second-dart-style.

thanks :)

[standndeliver]

This is the first I've heard of first- and second-darts described in quite this way. The four stages at the bottom of that page make a nice, succinct summary of growth patterns that I've heard expressed in other ways.

Sewing is mentioned at an interesting time for me. When I was growing up I didn't give much thought to stereotypes, I just rolled with them (mainly subconsciously). Shop class was okay and so was the cooking part of Home Ec. Sewing OTOH was "girly" and boring.

Fast-forward and I've decided to get a machine sometime soon and learn how to do a couple of things. But its bucking a gender stereotype is incidental. It's mainly about increasing independence, doing for myself things I currently pay others to do.

Which strikes me as ironic: Bucking a male stereotype (learning to sew) as a means to adhering to another more strongly (increasing self-reliance).

[eforney]

"girls, when you show off pretty skirts, it pleases me in a way not unlike watching birds soar in the sky, an ability/freedom i may never know for myself."

I'll probably think about that the next time I wear a skirt. Maybe every time. It is such a lovely sentiment. :)

[bubblingbeebles]

good! mission complete. :)