completeness

[bubblingbeebles]

my world is changing in a way i don't have a way to describe besides to say that i'm collecting extra colours in which i see it. during moments of joy, and of sadness too, there are new layers in my emotional model for me to explore, some sort of meta-pride in myself. even something as simple as taking my regular seat on the bus, where i always sit

Comments

[dachte]

Not meaning to suggest it's not worth writing, but..

I suspect those of us who deal with depression have other things to worry about than being a good friend to others, at least while things are bad.

I wonder if there are regularities in ways to be good to a depressed friend.

[bubblingbeebles]

Oh, I meant good specifically in the sense that the depression not hurt the friend, and that it be easier for the friend to help with the battle. I'm sort of thinking of it in terms of "provide an easy debugging interface" (and since it's more directly applicable to me than being supportive in the other direction, I think it's more interesting).

I wonder if there are regularities in ways to be good to a depressed friend.

that's what I'm hoping to find!

the ever-controversial blog had a post about this that I rather liked, though I'm going to try to be less gender-normative (since I don't think of my depression as particularly 'masculine').

[sleepsong]

The problem with depression is that even when someone is trying to help you, it doesn't feel like anybody cares. Or maybe nobody actually cares. I don't know.

[bubblingbeebles]

yeah, I mean, this is part of what I'm trying to tackle - do they act like they don't care because they don't know how to help, or because they're afraid of getting "sucked in", or because they just don't want to be that good of friends?

my hope is that effective "meta-communication" should be able to untangle these sorts of things. (for example, "i want you to do X for me when i say Y. is that reasonable? if not, why can't you give me that and what will you give instead?")

[sleepsong]

That sort of meta-communication is an entirely unreasonable expectation when dealing with depression, because:

* When people are depressed they don't necessarily know what they want or need.

* Needing to ask for that specific thing can make it worse, because you feel like you're unworthy of having somebody notice and do that thing without being asked.

* Depression is exhausting, and many people don't have the energy to ask for the help they need.

* When you're that depressed, often you don't want help, because there's no concept of there being anything but pain out there in the universe.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

[bubblingbeebles]

* When people are depressed they don't necessarily know what they want or need.

do you not think this is something a depressed person must get past in order to heal?

i don't think the depressed person has to do it all themself (failing friends who can be helpful, there are therapists to help with communication and antidepressants to help with clear thought). but, to resign oneself to having this lack of awareness define their suffering must be avoided at all costs.

* Needing to ask for that specific thing can make it worse, because you feel like you're unworthy of having somebody notice and do that thing without being asked.this is something i've been struggling with for a while. on bad days, this attitude can lead to pretty dangerous passive-aggression (at least, it has for me). i think the answer lies in building up the pride/equanimity to feel that if you say you need something and the friend refuses, you can leave them and find it elsewhere

[bubblingbeebles]

i think i go back and forth on these situationally.

frequently it's just irritating to be told that i oughtn't mope over something, as though i'm testing people's patience. mostly i'm the only person who's allowed to call myself out on that -- although sometimes it is helpful as a grounding reminder. i tend to get resentful when people say "therapist-speak" at me, as though i'm not already aware of it (whether i actually am or not).

my optimistic perspective of "fragile and helpless" is "it's okay to hurt; take as long as you need". but for this way to work, i have to trust that i'm not just being pitied.

[bubblingbeebles]

for all you and i communicate in different worlds sometimes, our emotional models sure work in nearly the same way.

[bubblingbeebles]

one point i'd like feedback on is a notion i've been building for categories of things that influence my mood. there are things:

- that bring me joy no matter what
- that make me happy if i'm already cheerful or
- that upset me if i'm already withdrawn and suffering
- that can shatter my day no matter what kind of mood i'm in

i was explaining this to wjl and it was very strange to ponder when he said e.g. there is no difference between the first two categories for him. but when i shared it previously with alanv, he agreed wholeheartedly. so i'm curious if this model exactly matches, is sort of similar, or is totally off base, for other people.

[bubblingbeebles]

"one day at a time. 24 hrs max." haha

I really like the way the latter list is titled "by the end of the day". so often I don't make myself actually commit to being happier in such a time frame and could then just putter around forever.

i haven't got a list of what occupies these categories. it would only be meaningful to make one for the first and last ones, but it might help a bunch.

[bubblingbeebles]

thanks! here are two more.

[masqueradestar]

204 is excellent.