completeness

[bubblingbeebles]

my world is changing in a way i don't have a way to describe besides to say that i'm collecting extra colours in which i see it. during moments of joy, and of sadness too, there are new layers in my emotional model for me to explore, some sort of meta-pride in myself. even something as simple as taking my regular seat on the bus, where i always sit

Comments

[sleepsong]

The problem with depression is that even when someone is trying to help you, it doesn't feel like anybody cares. Or maybe nobody actually cares. I don't know.

[bubblingbeebles]

yeah, I mean, this is part of what I'm trying to tackle - do they act like they don't care because they don't know how to help, or because they're afraid of getting "sucked in", or because they just don't want to be that good of friends?

my hope is that effective "meta-communication" should be able to untangle these sorts of things. (for example, "i want you to do X for me when i say Y. is that reasonable? if not, why can't you give me that and what will you give instead?")

[sleepsong]

That sort of meta-communication is an entirely unreasonable expectation when dealing with depression, because:

* When people are depressed they don't necessarily know what they want or need.

* Needing to ask for that specific thing can make it worse, because you feel like you're unworthy of having somebody notice and do that thing without being asked.

* Depression is exhausting, and many people don't have the energy to ask for the help they need.

* When you're that depressed, often you don't want help, because there's no concept of there being anything but pain out there in the universe.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

[bubblingbeebles]

* When people are depressed they don't necessarily know what they want or need.

do you not think this is something a depressed person must get past in order to heal?

i don't think the depressed person has to do it all themself (failing friends who can be helpful, there are therapists to help with communication and antidepressants to help with clear thought). but, to resign oneself to having this lack of awareness define their suffering must be avoided at all costs.

* Needing to ask for that specific thing can make it worse, because you feel like you're unworthy of having somebody notice and do that thing without being asked.this is something i've been struggling with for a while. on bad days, this attitude can lead to pretty dangerous passive-aggression (at least, it has for me). i think the answer lies in building up the pride/equanimity to feel that if you say you need something and the friend refuses, you can leave them and find it elsewhere

[sleepsong]

Oh, that we should all be as lucky as you, having all this intelligence and insight and effective coping mechanisms.

You should spend a few nights working in the DEC.

[bubblingbeebles]

if all depressed people had it no rougher than i have ever had it, the world would be a better place indeed.

does that mean i should not offer my thoughts anyway?

[sleepsong]

I think you should offer your thoughts, but you should temper your comments with the knowledge that what you're saying may be hurtful to someone who's so far down the hole that... I can't even articulate it. Nevermind, just ignore me.

[bubblingbeebles]

i'm sorry - let me try to be more clear.

i admire you a great deal for your psych ER work. it's not something i could do without turning into a wreck myself; even from what bits i hear you tell about it i recognise that it's worlds apart from my personal battle.

there's already plenty of literature about sanity-/life-threatening depression, though, and none at all (as far as i've seen) about the higher-functioning sort that harms nothing more than overall happiness and communication and friendships, so i'm hoping to get some ideas out about it.

part of the point of starting this thread was to learn how, indeed, to be clear about the sorts of problems i'm thinking about. when i say, "try to ask for exactly what you want," and you say, "many depressed people don't know what they want," we are talking about different worlds - i don't mean to trivialise yours, only to explore mine.

[zacharyzsparks]

+1

[wjl]

* When people are depressed they don't necessarily know what they want or need.

do you not think this is something a depressed person must get past in order to heal?

I rather wonder if it's not more the other way around -- that the not knowing is just a symptom, something that you get past once you heal..

[bubblingbeebles]

perhaps they go hand-in-hand: you can't make big steps on either of them before starting to make little steps on both of them.

[bubblingbeebles]

i don't mean it's a goal, but it's something i've repeatedly seen happen automatically, and i see value in trying to talk explicitly about it.