Looking back, it all went downhill for me when Pegasus showed up, WHICH IS SO FRUSTRATING because conceptually, the whole Pegasus concept and Admiral Cain was AWESOME and had so much potential (and it also heralded a great musical moment featuring drums from Bear, yo). I lost a considerable amount of respect for the show when the rape plot came through (maybe I'm just a baby about such things, but PLZ THIS DOES NOT ENTERTAIN ME.) And then shortly after, all the crazy plotlines showed up and the previousLIES and plotlines being explained in podcasts and deleted scenes and what not. OH SHOW. :(
BUT ON TOPIC: YES. Roslin's magical recovery was so eye-roll worthy - esp. now that they're bringing her illness back. DUDE. WHAT. PLEASE THINK YOUR STORYLINES THROUGH, RON D. MOORE.
Ironically I do peg the actual decline to the Pegasus but for different reasons. I don't think there was any way to avoid the Pegasus, it's one of the most popular "old show" episodes, but to me, the downturn began with how it resolved, not with a bang but a whimper. We got cliff hung with Galactica going after Pegasus, and then when the new season started.. all of a sudden Cain is willing to talk? And then she nicely gets killed at the end, by a Cylon that they have pictures of... and no one even... *suggests* that perhaps a fleet wide search should take place?
And the podcasts as necessary listening in order to make things make sense got old. I actually stopped posting in the BSG forums at Television Without Pity because of the podcasts. Because I think "canon" is what the producer chooses to put on the show, not what the producer says he wanted to put on the show but couldn't.
Agree completely on the bringing back of the cancer.
When that cliffhanger DIDN'T end with a Mexican standoff in the CIC and with Kara sticking her gun in Cain's ear, that was pretty much the nail in the coffin of my respect for the show.
I never listened to a single podcast. I have no regrets, for sure.
They actually wrote themselves into an impossible situation there. There's no way Kara could pull a gun on Cain and not be killed. And based on how Cain was depicted, its hard to believe she wouldn't have given the order to Fisk.
The podcasts were interesting but they turned into Ron whining a lot. I specifically got fed up with "I wanted Sharon raped on the pegasus, the channel made me cut it but Sharon was raped even tho we didn't show it" and all the fanboys then used that to argue "if the producer says it, then its canon, regardless of what actually occured on the show", coupled with a lot of hysteria that if people complain about the podcasts, they will stop.
Which is a different issue with me... I dislike people involved in a show like this (producers, actors, writers)participating in the fandom and allow themselves to be set up as online gods of the fandom. Its like being a BNF. We mustn't piss off Ron by disagreeing with him because he'll stop being accessible! Oh NOES!
This is interesting because the things that bug me about BSG are all centered on characters. Sure I noticed the plot was going a bit awry but as long as it was just bits and pieces being off (like the baby blood, which had me go "Uhm... okay, if you think so... moving on now"), I didn't really notice and I didn't think about it much
( ... )
See, I see what you mean about characters. Ijust tend to look at it from a plot perspective. Because you're citing stuff that is troubling to me from a plot point of view as well as characterization
( ... )
The whole Tyrol going psycho thing made sense to me, in that he was having a breakdown over how he basically screwed up and enabled Boomer to walk around the Galactica shooting people.
I get that he went psycho. But he never ever was an aggressive character before. It made sense later with Gaeta, when he stabbed Baltar, because there was a lot of bottled up aggression towards Baltar in the first place. But Cally had never done anything to Tyrol - he even jumped her before he knew who she was. And he's always been portrayed as a sweet, calm, self-confident guy. He didn't get angry with Crashdown in the episode where Crashdown died at all, he just got worried. I don't know. I need to see more of Tyrol losing it slowly before this. That, or I need him to have a different kind of psychotic break. Especially since he has more screentime than Gaeta so there has to be a better explanation in his case. We only ever saw Gaeta from the "outside", so to say, up to that point anyway, but we're used to identifying with Tyrol.
I'm like you. I notice things first from a character perspective, things start to sit uncomfortably with me, and that usually leads to me looking around and thinking 'hmm, this doesn't make sense from a plot perspective either' and after that I noticed more and more and more things...
I may be in the minority but I can excuse one or two small holes in plotting if the material surrounding it is really well written, well performed, true to the characters and doesn't create long-term plot issues.
For instance, I was pretty startled by the baby blood curing Roslin, but at the time I remember thinking that I'd give the show the benefit of the doubt. If this had been their only slip-up I'd have let it go eventually, maybe nostalgically looked back at 'that time Roslin got cured miraculously'--but unfortunately it was just the beginning of the end.
Also for a long time I clung to hope that so many of these things would eventually be explained/resolved/followed up. Hahahahaha no. My naievty, it was immense.
where I started to think they really didn't know what the Cylons were or what the relationship between Cylons and humans was. Same. And that is a BIG big issue for me. The biggest, actually. Linked to this point: they never plotted all the material out, they left an awful lot unplanned and made it up as they ran along, despite assurances otherwise. This is, imo, where they ran into huge trouble. Not knowing from the beginning who the 'Final four' were, for instance.
I liked a fair bit of material after Roslin's recovery, but I agree that that is probably when the first alarm bells started dinging.
I think this is where I started to think they didn't have it planned out.
Am I crazy? Because I remember a LOT of talk and praise directed to RDM and Eicke because they had this super bible of the show and everything was basically thought out and people would go ON about how awesome it was that it was planned out.
I think the Cylons as a whole could be a whole seperate topic to be honest :)
Agree tho, there was a lot of good stuff after Roslin's recovery, but this was the first warning bell for me. When I look back, I see the problems in Pegasus, but this is where I was "wait...."
I have to say, as a classic BSG fan first, I really liked the Kobol episodes because they sorta mirrored/"grew up" the Kobol episodes in classic BSG. (I plan a post at some point about how a lot of the better recieved 1st and2nd season story lines were lifted from the classic show) I always had an affection for the Von Daniken theories in the classic show... so I didn't see the star map as "the gods acting" but as more of a Indiana Jones sort of "see how smart our ancestors were" thing. But thats just me... I can see your point.
Caprica did look pretty intact for a nuclear wasteland. And funny how no one was sick.
Caprica did look pretty intact for a nuclear wasteland. And funny how no one was sick.
Ah, but you forget how the Centurions burned all the bodies? And those were more like those bombs that kept the buildings but killed all the people (what were those called - neutron bombs?) except for the spaceships - and Baltar's love pad - which blew up real good?
I kept trying to ignore that they were going to go down the road of literal magic tricks right up until that dark, dark moment in a dark, dark temple on a planet with pretty, pretty lighting... One prop later and they were transported to the holo-suite staring at that "star map". And I had my first really unsettling moment of Do Not Want *pouts*
YES! THIS! This was my *very* first inkling of "DO NOT WANT" as I mention in the previous post. IT WAS A HORRIBLE FEELING IN THE COCKLES OF MY COLON!
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And would have left some delightfully tantalizing question marks over her.
And where are the peaceniks now? Why aren't they having tea and algae cookies with their "friends"? Or did the Crazy Eights slit all their throats?
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Yes exactly. I could so see the political machine of Tom Zarek drawing a LOT of attention to Laura's miracle recovery.
The peaceniks were locked in the brig by Adama and never mentioned AGAIN.
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BUT ON TOPIC: YES. Roslin's magical recovery was so eye-roll worthy - esp. now that they're bringing her illness back. DUDE. WHAT. PLEASE THINK YOUR STORYLINES THROUGH, RON D. MOORE.
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And the podcasts as necessary listening in order to make things make sense got old. I actually stopped posting in the BSG forums at Television Without Pity because of the podcasts. Because I think "canon" is what the producer chooses to put on the show, not what the producer says he wanted to put on the show but couldn't.
Agree completely on the bringing back of the cancer.
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I never listened to a single podcast. I have no regrets, for sure.
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The podcasts were interesting but they turned into Ron whining a lot. I specifically got fed up with "I wanted Sharon raped on the pegasus, the channel made me cut it but Sharon was raped even tho we didn't show it" and all the fanboys then used that to argue "if the producer says it, then its canon, regardless of what actually occured on the show", coupled with a lot of hysteria that if people complain about the podcasts, they will stop.
Which is a different issue with me... I dislike people involved in a show like this (producers, actors, writers)participating in the fandom and allow themselves to be set up as online gods of the fandom. Its like being a BNF. We mustn't piss off Ron by disagreeing with him because he'll stop being accessible! Oh NOES!
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I get that he went psycho. But he never ever was an aggressive character before. It made sense later with Gaeta, when he stabbed Baltar, because there was a lot of bottled up aggression towards Baltar in the first place. But Cally had never done anything to Tyrol - he even jumped her before he knew who she was. And he's always been portrayed as a sweet, calm, self-confident guy. He didn't get angry with Crashdown in the episode where Crashdown died at all, he just got worried. I don't know. I need to see more of Tyrol losing it slowly before this. That, or I need him to have a different kind of psychotic break. Especially since he has more screentime than Gaeta so there has to be a better explanation in his case. We only ever saw Gaeta from the "outside", so to say, up to that point anyway, but we're used to identifying with Tyrol.
Taking a Break was ( ... )
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I may be in the minority but I can excuse one or two small holes in plotting if the material surrounding it is really well written, well performed, true to the characters and doesn't create long-term plot issues.
For instance, I was pretty startled by the baby blood curing Roslin, but at the time I remember thinking that I'd give the show the benefit of the doubt. If this had been their only slip-up I'd have let it go eventually, maybe nostalgically looked back at 'that time Roslin got cured miraculously'--but unfortunately it was just the beginning of the end.
Also for a long time I clung to hope that so many of these things would eventually be explained/resolved/followed up. Hahahahaha no. My naievty, it was immense.
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Same. And that is a BIG big issue for me. The biggest, actually. Linked to this point: they never plotted all the material out, they left an awful lot unplanned and made it up as they ran along, despite assurances otherwise. This is, imo, where they ran into huge trouble. Not knowing from the beginning who the 'Final four' were, for instance.
I liked a fair bit of material after Roslin's recovery, but I agree that that is probably when the first alarm bells started dinging.
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Am I crazy? Because I remember a LOT of talk and praise directed to RDM and Eicke because they had this super bible of the show and everything was basically thought out and people would go ON about how awesome it was that it was planned out.
I think the Cylons as a whole could be a whole seperate topic to be honest :)
Agree tho, there was a lot of good stuff after Roslin's recovery, but this was the first warning bell for me. When I look back, I see the problems in Pegasus, but this is where I was "wait...."
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Caprica did look pretty intact for a nuclear wasteland. And funny how no one was sick.
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Ah, but you forget how the Centurions burned all the bodies? And those were more like those bombs that kept the buildings but killed all the people (what were those called - neutron bombs?) except for the spaceships - and Baltar's love pad - which blew up real good?
WE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THEN.
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YES! THIS! This was my *very* first inkling of "DO NOT WANT" as I mention in the previous post. IT WAS A HORRIBLE FEELING IN THE COCKLES OF MY COLON!
OMG. I'm not alone! *lol*
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