Tension, Conflict, Motivation, and Plot: Why the Story is About Dean and We Do Know Sam
I wrote a meta thingy! :)
There’s been avid discussion about Sam and Dean and which of them, if either, seems to be favored by Kripke as well as debate about “who is the story really about”. I’ve noticed there’s been a propensity for some self-proclaimed “Dean girls” and “Sam girls” to run circles around each other, trying to prove their points. ( Read more... )
There’s been avid discussion about Sam and Dean and which of them, if either, seems to be favored by Kripke as well as debate about “who is the story really about”. I’ve noticed there’s been a propensity for some self-proclaimed “Dean girls” and “Sam girls” to run circles around each other, trying to prove their points. ( Read more... )
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I agree with every word you wrote here, it's all about the bigger picture and I would have thought that after three seasons of Spn, we'd know better. But that's also part of fandom, so.
I would comment with something meaningful and possibly seemingly intelligent, but it's late here, my neighbors are having a party and there's a baby somewhere crying. It's also very, very late and I should have been in bed like, yesterday (literally), and this is entirely your fault because I stayed up reading this and now I'm kind of wired and awarding you with feedback would feel as wrong like Sam without Dean. ::breathes in:: so I'm not giving you anything more than this slightly rambly comment.
My hat comes off before you, I'll give you that.
::goes to happy, fanish place::
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*chuckles* I think I like things like that, too. ;)
I hope you got some sleep in the end even with babies crying and raucous partying. Thanks for dropping me a comment, I'm always interested in hearing what people think, regardless if they think it's rambly or not. Heck, rambly is good ... I'm rambly ... fandom is made for rambliness like bitchfaces are made for Sam and mini philly cheese steak sandwiches are made for Dean.
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...I'm sorry...I got this far and started laughing and couldn't stop...you understand, I'm sure...wait until I bring this up a week from Tuesday...Okay, deep breath...I shall continue...
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It's pretty much the whole battle for me and my limited-space brain.
makes me wonder how deliberate this was on the writers' part or if they just lucked into it
I'd love to say that it's entirely pre-plotted and deliberate, but we all know how predicting what the characters to do in storytelling is like nailing Jell-O to the wall. In reality, it's probably a combination of a pre-plotted mytharc and emotional/characterization sign posts along the way with a huge amount of wiggle room in between for Sam and Dean to develop somewhat organically. And unlike with fiction for novels, there's also the not-so-inconsequential matter of actor interpretation and chemistry. Or, heh, you could just default to the easy answer: they're professionals and they know what they're doing all the time.
exactly what happened to the reference about Dean's drinking Sam made in the pilot?I don't recall a drinking comment about Dean (which doesn't mean it's not there). I know he did say something about John's ( ... )
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I wanted to pick up this point because as one who has been unhappy in the past about Dean not being tied to the plot as much as well as felt that Sam being the plot hindered his characterization, I found myself even more unhappy this Season ( ... )
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What was thus left was more characterization that frankly was nothing new to meI thought this was true in early S3 when Dean was running around with his indestructible hamburger-eating face. It was frustrating to see Sam and Dean locked in the same argument every week; I was so relieved when they had their communication break through in "Fresh Blood". However, I think mid-S3 has begun to show us new parts of Dean's psyche. "DaLDoM" showed us a new Dean who could assert things about John and himself that were a far cry from what we've heard in "Skin", "BUaBS", and "AHBL-2". "TKAA" showed us a side of Dean that longed for the "normal", something I can't remember seeing before. I think "Sin City" peeled away his macho layer and showed his terrified, doubtful side; I found ( ... )
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Oh god, I hated his depiction at the start of the Season to be frank. And I got the "he is trying to act as if nothing happened" part but the broad comic-esque carricature of it coupled with a - as I noticed - amped up frat-up humour of the show in general (gay comments, asses on nickels, doublemint twins) drove me up the walls. He always used to be flirty and womanizing but there was a certain boyish charme to it, suddenly we were living in sleazeville.
I agree that Fresh Blood marked a positive shift and I felt relief at having a character back I could like again. Dean has always been my emotional in into the show, starting from the Pilot and being presented with the early Season 3 version left me out in the cold.
"DaLDoM" showed us a new Dean who could assert things about JohnI felt parts of the writing a bit overdone - John was a Metal fan, really? Or is it just the music of his era that Dean happens to like? Because ( ... )
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It left a bad taste in my mouth, too. I tried not to think too much of it and kept brushing it off, thinking that "the next episode Dean will have a break through" and the humor would get back on track. But my reserve broke with 3x06 and I feared we'd lost Dean to his facade of flippancy and off-color jokes. That episode was the first time I was ever disappointed with The Show. I went into more detail about the offensive humor and Dean's characterization in an episode review if you're interested:
http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/24149.html#cutid1
Sorry, I can't concisely recap what I said in this comment because I'm sure I'll run out of room (again).
it was about the issues with his self esteem which has been his single major theme for three years now.This is really interesting because we're talking about the same episode (and probably the same scene: Dean vs. dream! ( ... )
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Sam's connection to ongoing plot has always tended to be rather more overt than Dean's (in seasons 1-2 anyway), but that doesn't mean that Dean's hasn't been quietly simmering away in the background anyway. It has. His is just a very different kind of plot than Sam's. And Dean's personality and characterisation have always tended to be more extrovert, quirky and in-your-face than Sam's, but that doesn't mean that Sam doesn't have a character. His is just a very different character than his brother's: maybe blander at times, certainly quieter, but just as definitely defined.
Thanks for a great read.
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I think the personality contrasts you point out are also what makes Sam and Dean so complimentary. In fact, "complimentary" is a dyadic structure used to describe a kind of spousal relationship dynamic. LOL. Anyway, that's beyond the point ... but just think how tiring and uninteresting it would be if Sam and Dean had virtually the same personality? Variety is the spice of life!
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Anyway, the brothers and the dynamic between them, the way it has grown and shifted, is consistently fascinating, in every permutation! Amazing how much can be achieved with just two characters - so much more depth and detail than you'd get with a larger cast all demanding screentime.
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so much more depth and detail than you'd get with a larger cast all demanding
I think that's why Sam and Dean have been able to evolve into such round characters. And the more complex and nuanced a character is, the easier it is to be drawn to them and to stay interested. Perhaps that's part of the reason for the show's passionate following?
Interesting you bring up the postitives of a small cast. Yourlibrarian and I were just babbling about the flip side of the coin in a parallel comment thread:
http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/34017.html?thread=421857#t421857
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