Tension, Conflict, Motivation, and Plot: Why the Story is About Dean and We Do Know Sam
I wrote a meta thingy! :)
There’s been avid discussion about Sam and Dean and which of them, if either, seems to be favored by Kripke as well as debate about “who is the story really about”. I’ve noticed there’s been a propensity for some self-proclaimed “Dean girls” and “Sam girls” to run circles around each other, trying to prove their points. ( Read more... )
There’s been avid discussion about Sam and Dean and which of them, if either, seems to be favored by Kripke as well as debate about “who is the story really about”. I’ve noticed there’s been a propensity for some self-proclaimed “Dean girls” and “Sam girls” to run circles around each other, trying to prove their points. ( Read more... )
I wanted to pick up this point because as one who has been unhappy in the past about Dean not being tied to the plot as much as well as felt that Sam being the plot hindered his characterization, I found myself even more unhappy this Season.
Granted Dean has now a plot but one he can have no agenda in, i.e. he couldn`t do anything about the deal. What was thus left was more characterization that frankly was nothing new to me, the same old issues I had known since Faith in Season 1. Coupled with the false analogy of a person with a terminal illness - he choose his fate which to me makes it different - I heavily disliked even the characterization this time.
And I do believe the deal in a roundabout way will turn out to be a vehicle for the larger arc of Sam`s destiny, leaving Dean once again in the role of what would typcially be the love interest in a comics movie - emotional support or blackmail object by the baddies. The Padme role in the Star Wars sequels so to speak. And to me that is one lackluster role. And one able to be filled by any number of characters: lover, brother, friend etc.
I`m not sure I`m explaining myself very well but to me the show has created a disconnect between story and show itself. The show itself is about both brothers, their bond the foundation of its success, the screentime is pretty evenly divided and everything from a production standpoint makes it about both.
The story however can function with or without Dean as the central mystery only needs Sam to not crumble. Sure, the story would have to be adapted a little bit if Dean was taken out - find a new companion - but it is absolutely possible in my eyes.
In general I haven`t been too happy with the clear divide into plot and characterization the show established from the start (and I`m never happy when I get an identification figure so blatantly served, pretty much guarantees I`ll identify with anybody else) as I believe it possible to intermingle the two - for only two characters no less - right from the start. The buddy principle vs. Campbell`s hero story so to say.
I wanted to say though that even if I have a different POV yours was an interesting and well-written meta.
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What was thus left was more characterization that frankly was nothing new to me
I thought this was true in early S3 when Dean was running around with his indestructible hamburger-eating face. It was frustrating to see Sam and Dean locked in the same argument every week; I was so relieved when they had their communication break through in "Fresh Blood". However, I think mid-S3 has begun to show us new parts of Dean's psyche. "DaLDoM" showed us a new Dean who could assert things about John and himself that were a far cry from what we've heard in "Skin", "BUaBS", and "AHBL-2". "TKAA" showed us a side of Dean that longed for the "normal", something I can't remember seeing before. I think "Sin City" peeled away his macho layer and showed his terrified, doubtful side; I found it interesting his view of God had evolved since "HotH".
he couldn`t do anything about the deal ... Coupled with the false analogy of a person with a terminal illness - [in "Faith] he choose his fate which to me makes it different -
I hope I'm understanding what you're saying: you feel Dean in S3 is less empowered than he was in "Faith" where you felt he had a choice. Let me play the devil's advocate and suggest Dean has a choice now. He technically could try to break the deal, but he chooses not to (it's pretty much a non-choice considering Sam's life is at stake, but it's a choice nonetheless). He has a choice in his mental attitude. He chose to be in denial and blase, but with the emergence of his sense of self in "DaLDoM", he's beginning to take charge of his mental game; he's choosing to want to live. To me, the switch in his mental approach makes him seem less helpless and more heroic; he's acknowledging his wants but then consciously choosing to do something to the contrary for what he believes to be the best interest for someone else. Even if he won't take action to save himself, at least he'll be walking to the pit on his terms. That seems much more empowering to me.
OK, I've blabbed so much my comment needs more space! lol
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Oh god, I hated his depiction at the start of the Season to be frank. And I got the "he is trying to act as if nothing happened" part but the broad comic-esque carricature of it coupled with a - as I noticed - amped up frat-up humour of the show in general (gay comments, asses on nickels, doublemint twins) drove me up the walls. He always used to be flirty and womanizing but there was a certain boyish charme to it, suddenly we were living in sleazeville.
I agree that Fresh Blood marked a positive shift and I felt relief at having a character back I could like again. Dean has always been my emotional in into the show, starting from the Pilot and being presented with the early Season 3 version left me out in the cold.
"DaLDoM" showed us a new Dean who could assert things about John
I felt parts of the writing a bit overdone - John was a Metal fan, really? Or is it just the music of his era that Dean happens to like? Because I like music from my mother`s time which doesn`t make me a pathetic copy of her - and I meant in general it was about the issues with his self esteem which has been his single major theme for three years now. At some point sympathetic start to become pathetic if nothing ever changes.
TKAA" showed us a side of Dean that longed for the "normal", something I can't remember seeing before.
I felt it was in spirit "What is and what should", minus a kid that was written with the five Deanly anvils in mind. A bit more subtlety on Ben would have been appreciated.
I hope I'm understanding what you're saying: you feel Dean in S3 is less empowered than he was in "Faith" where you felt he had a choice.
No, no, I meant his hands are tied because of the clause - lest the writing turned him slefish and cowardly - so he couldn`t very much do anything in this arc, couldn`t drive it forward, hence what was left was more emo-ing.
To be fair though I was bound to dislike it in general because I hated the deal (not at the least because it retroactively invalidated Dean`s position in Crossroad Blues that I still hold: nobody forced those people to make deals so not much sympathy from me, actions have consequences) and I dislike stories about people with terminal illnesses going through their five stages. But the writers cited this as inspiration and one of the important themes in such stories is the feeling of "why did this happen to me?" Dean knows why it happened, he made his bed himself.
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It left a bad taste in my mouth, too. I tried not to think too much of it and kept brushing it off, thinking that "the next episode Dean will have a break through" and the humor would get back on track. But my reserve broke with 3x06 and I feared we'd lost Dean to his facade of flippancy and off-color jokes. That episode was the first time I was ever disappointed with The Show. I went into more detail about the offensive humor and Dean's characterization in an episode review if you're interested:
http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/24149.html#cutid1
Sorry, I can't concisely recap what I said in this comment because I'm sure I'll run out of room (again).
it was about the issues with his self esteem which has been his single major theme for three years now.
This is really interesting because we're talking about the same episode (and probably the same scene: Dean vs. dream!Dean) but we both interpret the outcome differently. Yes, I agree that Dean's self-esteem issues have been the focus of his characterization for the better part of 3 seasons, but I felt "DaLDoM" was the first time we saw Dean actively counter the assertions of him "being useless/thinking of himself as nothing/having a low self esteem" (in "BUaBS" and in "AHBL-2" he didn't argue or deny anything). Dean not only vocally countered dream!Dean, he silenced him by shooting him ... a symbolic death of his old self in a sense. That, to me, was a huge first step out of his self worth rut he's been waffling around in since the pilot. That's what I consider "change".
so he couldn`t very much do anything in this arc, couldn`t drive it forward
I think this is the big issue with the plot tiger (Dean S3). A character who is stuck to the plot literally can't escape no matter what they do. This happened to Sam in S2 with the PsyKid thread where he was belted into this roller coaster of a plot that was going around and around. The overall effect does makes the character appear more helpless than a motivation-driven character because even though they can exercise choice and take action, they're still confined to the boundaries of the plot and what will be inevitable. So, yeah, Dean was stuck and should appear more helpless than he was in S1/2. And that's part of the catch22 of being the new plot tiger: finally the plot is about Dean but it feels like he's not (as you say) "driving it forward". Just like Sam in S2.
Dean knows why it happened, he made his bed himself.
I think this might also be a reason behind hamburger-muncher-fun-all-the-time!Dean of early S3. Not only was he in denial, I think he was purposely trying to fight off an chance he's slip into a self-pitying/emo-ing hole by running interference because he was fully aware he did this to himself. My impression of S3 Dean isn't one of a self-pitying, rage-at-the-midnight-sky-in-the-rain person. I actually got the opposite vibe from him: one of someone who was doing everything possible not to feel anything; someone who was desperately trying to be stoic and lay quietly and with little protest in the bed they'd made.
Heh. You and I are almost polar opposites XD!
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http://bowtrunckle.livejournal.com/24149.html#cutid1
Thanks for the linkage. :) While it wasn`t the first time I was unhappy the show was missing its potential - All Hell Part II was a crushing disappointment to me - I consider "Red Sky" to be the worst episode so far. And pity that Bela would have had potential as a character but once again we give the "character-making" (6th) episode of the Season to a total newbie writer and voila, we`re in deep guano.
I felt Andries, the new writer, coming from Alias was still writing for Alias, with Sydney/Bela the main character and Dean as the goof partnered up with her. On top of that it suffered from soap syndrome where if ever a blue collar guy gets introduced they`re hopelessly inferior and deliberately more uncouth to the posh, sophisticated woman.
Yes, Dean the movie fan wouldn`t know how to play-act at a high class party, he`s chewing gum - for the first time ever on the show. *crawls from anvil*
Dean not only vocally countered dream!Dean, he silenced him by shooting him ... a symbolic death of his old self in a sense. That, to me, was a huge first step out of his self worth rut he's been waffling around in since the pilot. That's what I consider "change".
I`m wary if it holds. I saw some first necessary steps in that very direction in Season 2 yet by the end of it all went poof and we were back at "start".
I think this is the big issue with the plot tiger (Dean S3). A character who is stuck to the plot literally can't escape no matter what they do. This happened to Sam in S2 with the PsyKid thread where he was belted into this roller coaster of a plot that was going around and around.
I felt Sam could have had a more active role in Season 2 if the writers had a bit of a better grip on pacing. His destiny didn`t preclude him from researching Azazel or the other Psy-Kids, trying to look into demon-summoning rituals, trying to hone his powers etc.
Now a whole lot of nothing took place till we got an exposition dump - delivered by the YED himself in a dream speech no less - but the story/characterization didn`t preclude it. Essentially noone drove the plot forward in Season 2 as it stood still till the Finale.
With the clause however Dean`s hands are literally bound or he could welch and be destroyed as a character so he couldn`t be shown researching or anything else. Thus once again it came to "how does that make him feel". It`s essentially that and that alone that I want to break out of.
And stuff where he could legitimately partake in falls under secret-keeping once more - Mary for example - so we can keep our crawl-y pacing. And on that front I hope he is involved plot-wise, not only how he feels about it.
In general I feel the writers haven`t managed yet the juggling process of keeping an arc running and in suspense while interminling it with standalones. Undoubtedly it`s harder than pure arc or pure anthology but for example having Buabs and ignoring any potential fall-out in following it up with lightweight Tall Tales (which I liked) gives me whiplash.
I actually got the opposite vibe from him: one of someone who was doing everything possible not to feel anything; someone who was desperately trying to be stoic and lay quietly and with little protest in the bed they'd made.
If that would have been more in the execution - instead of frat-boy on crack to draw a teen male demon - I`d have liked this Season a whole lot more.
Heh. You and I are almost polar opposites XD!
Hee. But hey, we both disliked "Red Sky", so common ground. :D
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I do believe the deal in a roundabout way will turn out to be a vehicle for the larger arc of Sam`s destiny
I also think the two plots will intersect at some point. The way the series has been constructed does make the demon plot (currently Sam's) the dominant one. What intrigues me is humans damned to Hell become demons. And that seems to be where there could be some wiggle room with respect to how Dean's deal plot merges with the demon plot. Who's to say that Sam will be the only character to be directly linked to demons and, therefore, the main demon plot? *grins*
leaving Dean once again in the role of what would typcially be the love interest in a comics movie - emotional support or blackmail object by the baddies.
I like this point. Have you read this?
http://www.cogsci.ecs.soton.ac.uk/cgi/psyc/newpsy?12.024
There are typically 3 types of female/male romantic relationship themes: Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, and the Taming of the Shrew. The one that sounds closest to what you're describing according to your Padme example (ugh, George Lucas) is Cinderella:
"heroine is passive: Through no fault of hers, she has been hurt by circumstances; helpless and powerless, her redemption is similarly achieved by an external agent."
Does that sound like Dean? The description of Taming of the Shrew with Dean and Sam in mind made me chuckle. I'm not arguing that Dean doesn't occupy a supporting role, but I don't think it's necessarily as the typical love interest.
And just to respectfully point out, Sam has been the emotional blackmail used on Dean since "AHBL-2".
The story however can function with or without Dean as the central mystery only needs Sam to not crumble
I agree with half. Sam's plot adapted could function without Dean, but it would cease to be the same story. It would become a solo-quest, not a something where the quest is a vehicle for the real story about a relationship. So would it really be comparable to Sam-and-Dean story if it ceases to be what their story is at it's heart?
I believe it possible to intermingle the two
I hope this is where SPN is heading.
I think this highlights how The Show can be approached from at least two different viewpoints that are both equally valid. Thanks for voicing your thoughts! :)
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I would be very happy if that was about to change but so far I`m not convinced it will happen. Sadly.
I'm not arguing that Dean doesn't occupy a supporting role, but I don't think it's necessarily as the typical love interest.
Not quite, true, but it is the usual sidekick role which is where my discontent stems from. As this is the reactionary character, the one that doesn`t drive the plot forward, only to distract from it or stall it. And I feel the show`s pacing has suffered for it in the past.
And what I meant by my love interest example is that it is the person at the end of the line. In this story there seem to be too requisites: that be a person whom Sam loves and who loves Sam (to stay). Which could very easily be done by a love interest if they were inclined to write it so.
So would it really be comparable to Sam-and-Dean story if it ceases to be what their story is at it's heart?
They could of course introduce a new companion for Sam which in essence would still allow it to be a story about a relationship, not the Sam-Dean-story but still. I don`t believe the show as a whole would survive the transitional-stage ratings-wise, too late for that, but from a storytelling perspective it is doable.
Thanks for voicing your thoughts! :)
Thanks for listening to my ramblings, sorry to chew off your ear. :D
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Weird. This is exactly what yourlibrarian and I talked about in a parallel thread in this post. She referred me to a meta she wrote that sparked this comment from me (which perhaps is the same point you're making ... dare I say we could be the same wavelength? *wink*):
"You also mention something I didn't touch on here: the reactionary character being largely the motivation tiger. The character bound to the plot is reactionary in the sense they're stuck reacting to external circumstances (the plot), but there needs to be an element of choice, otherwise the story seems fated and loses it's tension (and this is an American story, not European, where free will is practically a requirement). So while the plot tiger is confined to the story and must appear to have choices (drive the boat so to speak), the motivation tiger --whose central drive is usually another character--is stuck being reactionary without the illusion of choice. Unless they change who they are or the power dynamic changes, they're "fated" to react to the other character/characters they're bound to because that's ingrained in their role."
there seem to be too requisites: that be a person whom Sam loves and who loves Sam (to stay). Which could very easily be done by a love interest if they were inclined to write it so.
I love Sera Gamble's quote about SPN being "the epic love story of Sam and Dean." No wonder this fandom is so slashy. Heh.
They could of course introduce a new companion for Sam which in essence would still allow it to be a story about a relationship, not the Sam-Dean-story but stillI don`t believe the show as a whole would survive the transitional-stage ratings-wise
This would undoubtedly be Show suicide. I get a bad feeling just thinking about it. *closes eyes and shakes head*
Thanks for listening to my ramblings, sorry to chew off your ear. :D
I got a gold start for rambling listening in Grade 2. Also, I enjoy getting my ears chewed off. That's why I have a supply of Halloween wax ears in my desk drawer. ;) Seriously, it's my pleasure. I always enjoy talking about The Show and meeting new fandom people to share The Show love with.
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Which if rigidly kept thoughout a whole story makes both characters less than they could be in my opinion, though the always reactionary one by default would be less important.
Of course the plot expanding to a more grandesque nature - world-threatening demon war and possible Chosen One - widens the chasm between the characters even more. On that scale I`m quite disgruntled that once again two human guys fighting the dark because they were dragged in the fight wasn`t enough. You know, two small cogs in the wheel that nevertheless make a difference through perseverance and ingenuity.
After many Chosen One shows I get weary of the concept that humanity at large, as in most individuals choices are really irrelevant because it all comes down to predestined Messianic figures, probably with powers, making the all-deciding choices. Good and evil battle on a large scale and the normal humans can at best be foot soldiers.
Show isn`t quite so stark yet but with all the destiny anvils I almost expect it. For my once upon a time "lower decks" show I find it incredibly disappointing. For example "Mystery Spot" was such a neat episode yet lost emotional gravitas for me when I felt the Trickster`s motive was large-scale destiny-based.
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