Mmm, Meta...

[blubird_pie]

Swapping Spit and Satin Panties: Sexual Objectification of the Male Characters in Supernatural

Summary: Despite plausible allegations of sexism, women still like Supernatural. Also, Dean gets kissed by demons a lot. Maybe these things are related? And no, I’m not saying we just watch for the h/c and the pretty.
Word count: 2,000 yes I know

Comments

[essenceofmeanin]

this is a really interesting meta. Dean's refusal to say 'yes' to being ridden suddenly looks a whole lot different. i also really like your thoughts about temporary victimization, as well -- as well as just being an excellent attitude to take, it fits in very well with the mythos of the show itself.

[blubird_pie]

He-ey, italics! I'm glad that you enjoyed, it means a lot coming from someone whose fic I admire. We'll see how well these musings hold up as the season progresses. I'm especially interested in what Michael is like, if/when we see him, and how he tries to convince Dean. If I were really awesome, I'd tie in all these consent issues with the grander sweep of free will/ fate that's going on, but I'm not quite sure how all the pieces would fit just yet.

Thanks again for commenting, it gives me warm fuzzies when people respond to ideas I post!

[essenceofmeanin]

oh hey, thank you so much! *G* i think this is a great meta -- it's certainly different from anything i've seen and i can definitely see where it's coming from. any new thoughts now that we've met michael?

[blubird_pie]

WELL. At first I was a bit put out Because Michael really seemed to fit better with the free will/destiny stuff rather than the commodification of bodies thing I was trying to read onto the angels. He's comparatively nice to Dean, what with the use of "we" and drawing parallels between them as good soldiers, and goes out of his way to show how the take-over won’t be unpleasant- Dad’s better than new, Dean won’t be a drooling vegetable. His focus on what they’ll do after the possession rather than on how they’ll get to “yet” also threw me. But then I was all, wait

[innie_darling]

Dean’s ability to take Meg’s sexual assault as well as he’d take a punch (with a joke and no fallout) demystifies sexual violence and presents the argument that a person of any gender is not weakened by temporary victimization. Show doesn’t privilege sexual violence as having a greater effect on the boys than any other sort. The lack of trauma due to sexual violence, the way the boys never succumb to this abuse more than any other type, is in a way progressive. That is fascinating - I'll be thinking more about this. Thank you!

[blubird_pie]

Thank you! Giving someone else something to think about is the best thing I could hope for with a meta ;) I'm glad that you found all this interesting, and that you left a comment to that effect!

[tabaqui]

I like what you said up there in innie_darling's quote. I think Dean's joke about peanut butter was just another in a long line of Dean's various ways that he copes with violence/assault/coercion on his part. Somebody says 'you're gonna do what i tell you' and Dean says 'cram it with walnuts'. He doesn't like being seen or perceived as weak so he has to come back with a line or a joke that screams 'that didn't bother me

[blubird_pie]

Yeah, one of the things I like about the use of sexualized violence in Show is that the boys' being so physically competent doesn't automatically save them; sometimes I feel like people assume that if you just were strong enough or fought hard enough, sexual assault couldn't happen to you, and that's problematic in so many ways

[tabaqui]

...if you just were strong enough or fought hard enough, sexual assault couldn't happen to you...Exactly. I don't know if it 'does' anything or helps anyone, but i think it's good that Show doesn't shy away from the fact that yeah, the boys *can* lose, they can be beaten down or outsmarted or tricked, they *aren't* uber-perfect super-guys, they're just...guys

[blubird_pie]

It's actually kind of interesting to think about how much the sex while Gary was possessing him counts as assault in light of the soul/body dichotomy they've got going. To me it seems like rape, but that's because I attribute a certain "selfness" to a body. Obviously in real life we can't separate our minds from our bodies, but in SPN they can. Does that change anything? Your point about Gary vs. Meg has me thinking about physical vs mental violation. l I mean, without Dean to tell him, would Sam ever even know about the dominatrix? Does that mean it's less of a violation, at least in Show's view of things? Though I guess it's implied that Sam doesn't remember much about Meg's possession, I think you're right about the guilt considering both Bobby and Dad were able to suppress possession to protect Dean

[nina1179]

I love this topic! Someone else did a meta pretty similar to this earlier this year and I've definitely noticed the sexual nature of possession too and its fun to see who else notices it and that it's not just me being creepy and over analyzing,even if the show didn't do it on purpose. The first time I felt a sexual assault vibe though it was really uncomfortable because it was the scene in Devil's Trap where John gets way into Deans space and hurts him from the inside out. Then I went back and there are just so many things that could be seen as sexual assault, even though it's not explicit or anything. There's Meg, the vampire kissing Dean, the demon (dean even says he was "violated with demon tongue"). Then there's less obvious examples and implications like Alistair's "pokes and prods", John and then in the future Grandpa getting all in Deans space and even sniffing him has uncomfortable connotations, and then there's all the verbal hits like agent Henrickson accusing John of inappropriate touching, the "angel condom" idea and Zach

[blubird_pie]

Hey, I clearly don't mind long meta ;) I'm really glad that you found my post thought provoking! Don't suppose you have a link to that other meta? I'm interested in how someone else would approach this theme. I didn't really get into the YED's interaction with Dean, but I think that you're right about there being a sexual tone to it. I had also totally forgotten about Henrickson's accusation! Honestly, the incest theme in Show could be its whole own Freudian meta- like with the babysitter from last week's episode: some people are reading a relationship between her and John...and then Dean admits to having a crush on her. I'm super excited for tonight's episode!

Thanks for the comment, I really appreciate the feedback.

[nina1179]

I do actually!!! And interesting, I didn't think much about the babysitter but that's another funky detail. You're right, the incest theme in this show could fill out a whole book!
Anyways, here's the link:

http://chasingtides.livejournal.com/411989.html
and
http://chasingtides.livejournal.com/412937.html

There's two of them by the same person because she wanted to clarify her first post with her second one. There were some wanky responses but lots of interesting discussion too!

[blubird_pie]

Awesome, I'll go take a look! I have to say, I was super glad that all the discussion here has been respectful and intelligent. I know that this is a touchy subject on a lot of levels, but wank is bad for everybody.

[melanth0]

This makes so much sense. I hadn't made the jump between possession and sex, but it definitely follows; we've also got Jesse's mom, whose name I forget, practically lampshading the metaphor.

And I am, of course, entirely with you on the Alistair/Dean implications. That's an especially prominent example of violation having relatively little effect on the boys, because yes, Dean was scarred, but considering he spent forty years below he came out more or less intact.

I just thought of another example for the possession-sex column: at the end of Born Under A Bad Sign, Dean tells Sam that "you full on had a girl up inside of you for like a week. That's pretty naughty."

I think a lot of people base the misogyny claims on death counts, and they do have a point in that as far I can tell, the only significant surviving female character is Meg. On the other hand, most of the men die too. make of that what you will. I can't decide.

[blubird_pie]

Hoo boy, I'd forgotten about Jesse's mom; good point. I also left out the scenes with Lillith and Sam, which in retrospect would have been a good balance for Dean and the crossroads demons.

It's interesting that your post contrasts Dean's lack of hell PTSD with his cracks about Sam's possession...I wonder if he'd have the same jokey "that's naughty" response post-Alistair? I was a bit surprised when he was so gleeful about his un-rehymenation, considering. But then I guess in my thesis that would be a progressive separation of sex and rape, a clear statement that rape is all about power and not at all about desire...interesting.

re: the death count- yeah, i have a hard time calling sexism based on who dies because of the prevalence of death. It does seem like when they do make an exception it's always for a white dude (Cas, Bobby)...but we can't claim to have an accurate head-count 'till the very end ;)

Thanks for the comment, it's been super fun to see what people think about this theory!