Justification

[blackthornglade]

I'm going to rag on otherkin for a minute. Sorry, Lothie. I think the steps you took were good ones for valid reasons. This has nothing to do with your running of the community and far more to do with what I'm seeing there lately. I don't really want to do this there...no, that's not true. I do, but I don't want to cause a flame war there while you're trying to

Comments

[jalilifer]

Their "need" for justification is their problem, not yours.

I'm making that my new mantra, "Not my problem". I tend to let other people's problems drive me nuts, and that's just a waste of my energy.

I must admit, I don't completely "get" you, Jet. But ya know what? If that's a problem, it's mine, not yours. Actually, I don't have a problem with it -- I figure I don't have to completely "get" you to respect you and like you.

I don't need to justify myself to anyone. I don't need to prove to anyone that I'm kinky or bisexual or a witch or poly or any other attribute that people might not like. I accept those parts of me. And I don't appreciate the attempt to shake my faith in them, thanks very much. Just because you are not comfortable in your own skin doesn't mean that I shouldn't be in mine. And it doesn't mean that because I *am* comfortable I haven't looked, examined, explored.

It means that I don't need to provide proof to anyone out there about who and what I am.

Perfect. Now *that* I get. :)

[blackthornglade]

*grins* A lot of people don't get me...including myself some days. So, don't worry about that too much.

If we all perfectly understood each other, it would be pretty boring, I think. There wouldn't be all these fancy colors and thoughts and debates. I wouldn't get to look at your life and go "How neat!" (Yeah, even the trials and stuff we go through.)

I don't understand how you and Droops find contentment in your religion. I know you do. I know most of my family does. But it didn't connect with me. And that's ok. I'm happy that you and he can do your thing and smile and be happy with it.

That's why I love my flist so much. You're all so different. And yet, there are some common threads that bind you all together into the necklace of "Jet's Friends".

I don't *get* all of you...and that's the way I like it :)

[jalilifer]

It's having a bit of the "alien" in life that keeps things hopping.

[anchasta]

You rock!

That's why I left Otherkin a year or so ago...I realized I didn't care about these other folks (for the most part) and that I didn't feel the desire to be attacked for every little thing, or watching people smoosh butterflies for fun.

That rant gets two "Damn the Man's"!

[blackthornglade]

Thanks. :)

I've been known to selectively smoosh butterflies, but (I hope) only the ones that were leading someone down the garden path. I'm hoping recent changes will help the group.

[skatche]

I think the point of the argument (though misunderstood by a lot of people on otherkin) was less about justifying one's own belief and more about determining whether such justification was possible - whether or not the otherkin condition could be externalized in such a way that someone else could look at you and go "Oh yeah, you are otherkin." It's not something that each member of the community has to do, but it's damn interesting to try and figure out whether or not it's possible.

[blackthornglade]

I know some of you were doing that, but I don't think everyone was. I've got no problem with the theoretical discussion. At least, I don't think I do. Where my problem comes in is the more aggressive (though sometimes very subtle), justify who you are or else you're a fake tracks that it sometimes went down.

Maybe with some folks not being admitted back in, that will get cut down some and more of the theoretical discussion can happen. For me, though, it's going to take some time to see where the discussion goes before I'll jump back into it.

[blackthornglade]

I want to be a Space Cheese Fairy!!!!

*ahem* Back to the discussion...

[elnigma]

Its not like witches or polyamory, people acknowledge those all the time. A person can be pulled up in front of a courtroom over infidelity or witchcraft, and its not going to be treated as a fantasy. As far as I know, if you claim to be not human, the most that will happen is being treated like someone claiming to be Napoleon Bonaparte.. people will think that's not quite logical, but as long as it doesn't harm anyone, probably not do anything in response.

[blackthornglade]

Witchcraft isn't going to be treated as fantasy? Maybe not in all cases, but there's still plenty of people out there that snigger and say "look...she thinks she can do magic. *teehee* OOH! Turn me into a frog!" I'm asked to "prove" that I can do spellwork all the time. And my lack of ability to shoot lightning bolts from my ass is "proof" that I'm mentally delusional in their world.

I'm asked to justify that polyamory's healthy and, in a group family with kids, that it doesn't harm the children. To justify that I'm not really a person that has problems with committments and just wants some sort sleezy sex life.

There are still a lot of people that think if you practice witchcraft, polyamory, or BDSM (and some who think if you're gay), you've got mental problems and need to be medicated or confined. We *are* asked to justify our mental states all the time. The same as for those that think otherkin are off their rockers.

While it's better for some of those groups, it's certainly not gone entirely.

[elnigma]

Its a matter of balance, I suppose. If someone worries too much about how other people think about what they do and how that impacts others, they won't do anything, but if they don't worry at all, they'll be socially inept at least.
There are definately some otherkin off their rockers, but I don't think you are insane. I don't know what you think you are that's different or why, but then I usually don't know that about most people. People can think a lot of weird things about themselves and its all right with me if they don't insist I worship them if they think themselves a god/dess, or that I pet them behind their ears, or say I have to do all kinds of bizarre "gentle, special" crap.

[reneemaris]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You've said so many things here that I've been trying to work out in my own head, especially since I may well have to justify myself (and/or my gender id) to a councilor sometime soon.

I'm printing this out and keeping it close. Thanks again!

[blackthornglade]

You're very welcome :)

Gender can be very sticky sometimes, if only because of the cultural perception of suck. Otherkin don't have to work with that because most "normal" people don't think we exist or even know the term.

Gender we have preconceived notions about, along with the attendant stereotypes and assumptions. Female gender goes with innie bits. Male gender with outtie bits.

That there are only two physical sexes (which I strongly disagree with) and only two genders (also strongly disagree) and that the two "should" align is a huge problem for me. :)

Even moreso lately than it used to be. *heh*

[fromherashes]

That there are only two physical sexes (which I strongly disagree with) and only two genders (also strongly disagree) and that the two "should" align is a huge problem for me. :)

Hmm... possibly not here on the LJ if you don't want, since it's a pretty major digression, but I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts about this at some point.