As cheesy as it sounds, I think that this page largely sums up the issue, and WHY it is rape.
Simply put: if there is a contract (implicit or explicit) between person A and person B, that contract cannot be applied to persons C, D, and E without the expressed consent of person A.
That is like taking a gift certificate that you got from Wendy's and trying to use it at Burger King and McDonald's. Just because Wendy's recognizes that tender, it does not mean that other restaurants need to recognize that tender.
Also, as the page says, consent is an ongoing process because the nature of communication is fluid.
Not too long ago, a woman was sleepwalking and was raped. Legally, that sleepwalking woman and the drunk woman at the party are BOTH considered incapacitated and are not reliable witnesses to whether they themselves gave consent, so there is no way that they could be considered able to give clear consent
( ... )
If a woman is drunk and has sex with a bunch of guys all at once, that's a clearer form of rape (to me) because there is no way that she was likely to have given consent to that sex act. Unless there's a signed document, proof of payment, and cameras around, it becomes more clear to me that people took advantage of a person in that scenario.
That's a helluva judgment call... some folks get down like that without cameras or money... just sayin'.
Bottom line for me is, no matter what I believe about whether a woman can give consent while drunk, if you're in a state that has the law on the books that she can't, guess what? It's rape. What I BELIEVE it should be doesn't mean shit once I'm standing in front of a judge.
Moral of the story when in one of these states: Dude, don't fuck random drunk women. If, as the song goes, ain't no pussy good enough to get burned while I'm up in it, there also ain't none good enough to go to jail for. Where there will be NONE for a LONG TIME.
I mean, I don't have sex with random women on GP. But I ESPECIALLY don't have sex with random drunk women.
Re: How is this even a questionguttaperkJanuary 24 2008, 17:43:39 UTC
I would consider it a devolution not in the sense of being objectively inferior- I don't think that anyone has the objectivity to make that assessment- but rather in the sense of moving away from what many men or women seem to want, in reduction of their personal rights over their own bodies. I have no interest in seeking out partners in bars myself, but it seems to be a common preoccupation
( ... )
Re: How is this even a questionguttaperkJanuary 26 2008, 11:23:22 UTC
As far as I am concerned, if an incident is definitely rape, it should definitely lead to conviction and jail. It may not do so because of procedural error et cetera, but conviction and jail definitely *should* be the result of rape.
So if I ask "is this rape", I am indeed asking if it should lead to conviction and jail time.
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Simply put: if there is a contract (implicit or explicit) between person A and person B, that contract cannot be applied to persons C, D, and E without the expressed consent of person A.
That is like taking a gift certificate that you got from Wendy's and trying to use it at Burger King and McDonald's. Just because Wendy's recognizes that tender, it does not mean that other restaurants need to recognize that tender.
Also, as the page says, consent is an ongoing process because the nature of communication is fluid.
Not too long ago, a woman was sleepwalking and was raped. Legally, that sleepwalking woman and the drunk woman at the party are BOTH considered incapacitated and are not reliable witnesses to whether they themselves gave consent, so there is no way that they could be considered able to give clear consent ( ... )
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That's a helluva judgment call... some folks get down like that without cameras or money... just sayin'.
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Intoxication = impaired judgement. Any person willing to sleep with someone whose judgement is impaired, is suspect to me.
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But "suspect" should not be the same as "automatically guilty".
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Moral of the story when in one of these states: Dude, don't fuck random drunk women. If, as the song goes, ain't no pussy good enough to get burned while I'm up in it, there also ain't none good enough to go to jail for. Where there will be NONE for a LONG TIME.
I mean, I don't have sex with random women on GP. But I ESPECIALLY don't have sex with random drunk women.
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But it really just dodges the question.
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So if I ask "is this rape", I am indeed asking if it should lead to conviction and jail time.
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