Comments | bearringsd: Of Faith and Choice...

bearringsd

Of Faith and Choice...

Feb 20, 2008 12:05

About a year ago, I started to question my sense of faith. I read some books and I spoke to some people to try and get a sense for what they believed in and what they defined as ‘Faith’. There was a surprising common thread between believers and non-believers: neither side could provide incontrovertible proof of their position. They could ( Read more... )

spirit

Comments 11

raisincub February 20 2008, 20:52:03 UTC

Henry ( ... )

intoutdoors February 21 2008, 04:06:53 UTC

It is this quality of all-inclusiveness that I think we are ultimately seeking.

But isn't faith also about not having all the answers? If your son dies despite your prayer, isn't there some incorrect assumption that prayers are supposed to be answered according to our wishes?

Faith by definition is a belief in something despite a lack of hard evidence. It is something beyond our control, beyond our complete understanding.

what if I believe in the ‘wrong’ thing?

If you're wondering whether your choices are ‘right’ or ‘Wrong’ then you've put your faith into something already ;-)

Hmmm...interesting point of view.... bearringsd February 21 2008, 05:51:38 UTC

But isn't faith also about not having all the answers? If your son dies despite your prayer, isn't there some incorrect assumption that prayers are supposed to be answered according to our wishes?

IMHO and without due respect, I disagree. When it comes to the afterlife, people want to bet in the winning team. They WANT their faith to answer all their questions. If possible, they don't want to wing it and they DON'T want to spend the time to think about stuff. They want answers, not "maybes".

I don't think that people choose to believe in something hoping that they are right but knowing that they could be wrong. People pray and have faith and hope with a very concrete purpose: they hope that their prayers are answered.

Re: Hmmm...interesting point of view.... intoutdoors February 21 2008, 07:20:48 UTC

Perhaps I missed the point. Are we talking about the afterlife? Are we acknowledging that faith is a part of both/either spirituality and/or religion?

Of course, people pray for many reasons. But to whom or what? Is this what you're struggling with? Which to choose?

I don't know of a single religious or spiritual philosophy that can justify everything. But that's exactly where faith comes in; how about the old cliché, “everything happens for a reason.” I think faith is strongest when understanding is at its lowest.

Re: Hmmm...interesting point of view.... philbutrin February 21 2008, 19:12:07 UTC

I think faith is strongest when understanding is at its lowest.

i think that's a good way of putting it. although i might change it to "faith is strongest when need-for-understanding is at its lowest".

part of having faith is accepting that there is something bigger than you and that there are very possibly things beyond your understanding that you can only wonder and marvel at. that can feel like a tough bit of mental gymnastics -- like trying to wrap your head around the concept of infinity -- but i believe it's an important part of the process.

the brain doesn't want to admit that there are things it can't understand, which is why you need to also look to the heart when thinking about faith :-)

philbutrin February 21 2008, 19:05:59 UTC

So, in my opinion, I don’t think either side can give you that deal-maker piece of evidence that seals the deal in their favor.but isn't that what faith is all about? it's about believing in something because you feel that it's right, not because someone has provided you with scientific proof ( ... )

philbutrin February 21 2008, 19:06:10 UTC

what if I believe in the ‘wrong’ thing?i don't think that's possible. the key word there is "believe"... what you do and what you believe are two different things ( ... )

Feeling vs doing, intellect vs heart bearringsd February 21 2008, 19:35:11 UTC

I think that one of the core messages that you are trying to convey with both of your replies (and I am DELIGHTED you took the time to write so much about this) is that whatever that thing is that we may believe in...that thing may escape rational explanation and you just feel in your heart that it is right.

You see, I used to hold that very concept at the center of my faith: that although I couldn't explain it with my mind, I truly felt "in my bones" that there was something out there greater than me.

The problem with that is that I am no longer sure if that 'feeling' is enough. That 'feeling' could be the result of my own peculiar brain chemistry and no 'proof' of something greater than my understanding. This is at the core of many believer/non-believer discussions. One always seems to reach an impasse when someone says "I can't explain this, but I believe it to be true."

This is a problem particularly when people try to organize entire systems of belief around that 'feeling' and get others to follow those beliefsI used to ( ... )

Re: Feeling vs doing, intellect vs heart philbutrin February 21 2008, 20:17:09 UTC

oops... i replied in the wrong place... my reply to this is below...

philbutrin February 21 2008, 20:16:25 UTC

The problem with that is that I am no longer sure if that 'feeling' is enoughi'm not surprised... we live in a world that makes it very hard to hold on to feelings of faith ( ... )