I agree, the episode was more like two episodes that didn't fit together well. In fact I wondered if the idea for this one, for 4.02 and maybe for 4.07 had been devised together (I know nothing about 4.07 past the preview). All three seemed to center on mixed fear and guilt, and something about the past coming back to haunt them. It made me speculate that maybe competing ideas on how to use that premise had ended up spinning out into separate scripts. And since these writers were new they neither blended the storylines together well, nor did they get the right tone
( ... )
As Dean is for him, he’s still his brother’s keeper.
Yes, what was missing for me here was what you pointed out, a sense of anxiety. I did think though that Sam showed concern for Dean's situation. I can't help thinking too that he had to find the whole thing discombobulating. For one thing, the sheer unpredictability of Dean's concerns would throw anyone off, and for Sam who thought he knew Dean's weak spots, it had to be more jarring still. Plus the fact that he never knew when his partner was suddenly going to undermine him had to be taxing. I can understand why Sam wouldn't come off as being overprotective here.
although all the equipment was in perfect repair and fully poweredLOL, too true. I've noticed the same thing about abandoned properties they squat in, which always seem to have power and running water
( ... )
Thank you! I suspect you may be right about the script; it didn't hang together as it should have, and that's often an indication of disparate elements cobbled together. In the hands of more experienced writers, the seams wouldn't have been nearly as obvious.
I didn't have quite as much trouble with Dean's various phobias being disconnected from his personality; the phobias were irrational, like the sheriff's obsessive concern with germs even before he, like Dean, evidently started coughing up wood chips. It would have been fun if they'd been more connected to his essential personality, but having him become afraid of virtually everything spoke eloquently of Dean being someone afraid of almost nothing.
I did love the continuity in Dean ignoring food in his extremity. I knew I forgot to mention something!!!
I think the reordering of the episodes is a bit at fault here, Mary. Dean's speech about hunting makes much more sense in the immediate aftermath of the revelation of Mary's deal and the ruguru's fate. (Just as Dean's recommitment to hunting makes more sense after his immediate return.)
Kripke, in his apology for calling Dean a dick (really, fandom?), said that people were meant to focus on that the ghost sickness focused on people who used fear to control, and to ponder what Lilith meant by Dean knows why he got sick. (I've seen some commentary speculating on a link to why Dean's eyes bled in Bloody Mary.)
I always enjoy when the boys get a chance to get silly and the stand alones, but I'm ready for a return to the mytharc.
Let's get mythic!!! Somehow, I suspect we're going to get dark and heavy from now up until the holiday hiatus ...
I agree that the reordering of the episodes affects our perception. I think I'll rewatch the season in Kripke's initial order at some point, just to see how my viewpoints change.
I loathe fandom wank. I'm glad that I was staying offline until I managed to write my commentary; it appears that I missed a fair bit of idiocy! Thank Ghu ...
I do wonder why Dean thinks that he knows why he, and not Sam, was afflicted with ghost sickness. It's got to be more than his old issues with self-esteem.
I'm afraid about what we're going to learn about what happened to Dean in Hell, and what happened to Sam after Dean died.
Kripke has often confessed that he is not subtle, and I think this episode reflected that - I'm guessing that it appealed to his personal funny bone, and he didn't fully sense how it might hit the characters.
Still, a misstep by this series still results in a show with more going for it than almost anything else on television. I love this show!!
Spot on as usual. It's almost scary how you seem to be able to to put MY thoughts into words LOL.
Strange as it may sound but the young deputy sherrif stole my heart, thought the kid was just great. Loved the scene where he asked Sam if dean was drunk and I loved the way Jared said no. Loved the interaction between the drunken Dean and the deputy. Loved the subtle things such as Dean clinging to Sam's arm, seeking his protection like a little boy. Sam in the role of big brother (or maybe even the father). And I loved the trust Dean had in Sam which he showed by allowing the role reversal.
I preferred the subtle 'I don's want to be a clue' over the cat screeming.
I didn't like the episode as a whole but I did like a lot of the separate parts. All in all I felt a little dissapointed but not for long because then ..... Eye of the tiger .......
Glad we're on the same frequency ... *grin* And I loved seeing Sam try to be for Dean what Dean had always been to him.
I can forgive this show a lot. Even if the episode didn't hang together as we wish it would have, the individual elements of it were delightfully tasty.
Re: very on target analysisbardicvoiceOctober 29 2008, 02:11:56 UTC
Thank you, my dear!
Kripke has often admitted that he isn't subtle, and I do think that this tickled his funny bone to the extent that he overlooked other elements that didn't fit so well. Still, I trust him on the overall (especially while he has Robert Singer and Kim Manners as his running martingales to keep him focused on the jumps), and I'm betting that we're going to hit the intensity roller coaster from now until past the holiday hiatus.
Re: very on target analysiszazreilOctober 29 2008, 11:42:33 UTC
Kripke has often admitted that he isn't subtle,
Didn't he also say he tried to write comedy before he got into horror but could never sell a script. He s**ked at it? That could explain why he liked this script so much.
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Yes, what was missing for me here was what you pointed out, a sense of anxiety. I did think though that Sam showed concern for Dean's situation. I can't help thinking too that he had to find the whole thing discombobulating. For one thing, the sheer unpredictability of Dean's concerns would throw anyone off, and for Sam who thought he knew Dean's weak spots, it had to be more jarring still. Plus the fact that he never knew when his partner was suddenly going to undermine him had to be taxing. I can understand why Sam wouldn't come off as being overprotective here.
although all the equipment was in perfect repair and fully poweredLOL, too true. I've noticed the same thing about abandoned properties they squat in, which always seem to have power and running water ( ... )
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I hope we get a feature on the DVD detailing the music of SPN! That would be awesome!!!!
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I didn't have quite as much trouble with Dean's various phobias being disconnected from his personality; the phobias were irrational, like the sheriff's obsessive concern with germs even before he, like Dean, evidently started coughing up wood chips. It would have been fun if they'd been more connected to his essential personality, but having him become afraid of virtually everything spoke eloquently of Dean being someone afraid of almost nothing.
I did love the continuity in Dean ignoring food in his extremity. I knew I forgot to mention something!!!
Reply
Kripke, in his apology for calling Dean a dick (really, fandom?), said that people were meant to focus on that the ghost sickness focused on people who used fear to control, and to ponder what Lilith meant by Dean knows why he got sick. (I've seen some commentary speculating on a link to why Dean's eyes bled in Bloody Mary.)
I always enjoy when the boys get a chance to get silly and the stand alones, but I'm ready for a return to the mytharc.
Reply
I agree that the reordering of the episodes affects our perception. I think I'll rewatch the season in Kripke's initial order at some point, just to see how my viewpoints change.
I loathe fandom wank. I'm glad that I was staying offline until I managed to write my commentary; it appears that I missed a fair bit of idiocy! Thank Ghu ...
I do wonder why Dean thinks that he knows why he, and not Sam, was afflicted with ghost sickness. It's got to be more than his old issues with self-esteem.
I'm afraid about what we're going to learn about what happened to Dean in Hell, and what happened to Sam after Dean died.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Kripke has often confessed that he is not subtle, and I think this episode reflected that - I'm guessing that it appealed to his personal funny bone, and he didn't fully sense how it might hit the characters.
Still, a misstep by this series still results in a show with more going for it than almost anything else on television. I love this show!!
Reply
Spot on as usual.
It's almost scary how you seem to be able to to put MY thoughts into words LOL.
Strange as it may sound but the young deputy sherrif stole my heart, thought the kid was just great. Loved the scene where he asked Sam if dean was drunk and I loved the way Jared said no. Loved the interaction between the drunken Dean and the deputy.
Loved the subtle things such as Dean clinging to Sam's arm, seeking his protection like a little boy. Sam in the role of big brother (or maybe even the father). And I loved the trust Dean had in Sam which he showed by allowing the role reversal.
I preferred the subtle 'I don's want to be a clue' over the cat screeming.
I didn't like the episode as a whole but I did like a lot of the separate parts. All in all I felt a little dissapointed but not for long because then ..... Eye of the tiger .......
All's well that ends well
Hugs
Pietie
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Glad we're on the same frequency ... *grin* And I loved seeing Sam try to be for Dean what Dean had always been to him.
I can forgive this show a lot. Even if the episode didn't hang together as we wish it would have, the individual elements of it were delightfully tasty.
And "Eye of the Tiger" was PRICELESS!!!
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(The comment has been removed)
Kripke has often admitted that he isn't subtle, and I do think that this tickled his funny bone to the extent that he overlooked other elements that didn't fit so well. Still, I trust him on the overall (especially while he has Robert Singer and Kim Manners as his running martingales to keep him focused on the jumps), and I'm betting that we're going to hit the intensity roller coaster from now until past the holiday hiatus.
We may look back on laughter with fond regret ...
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Kripke has often admitted that he isn't subtle,
Didn't he also say he tried to write comedy before he got into horror but could never sell a script. He s**ked at it? That could explain why he liked this script so much.
Zaz
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