Thanks for the analysis! This episode didn't do much for me so I don't have much to add but this...
including why it took nearly twenty years ... not to mention how and why O’Brien’s wedding ring turned up there I can answer - I think the (extremely subtle) explanation given was that O'Brien had returned to the scene of the crime after twenty years to reflect on what he'd done. (Snake guy did say "he'd gotten better" so I imagine it was out of guilt.) That's why his wedding ring was left there so recently, and when he left, he took the ghost disease with him to infect others.
I have no idea what the true targeting-the-victim method was - going by what Kripke said, the episode flubbed it a little there and it will probably only make sense in hindsight.
I can’t help but think that the key will turn out to be the love between the brothers and the simple truth that it will always be there and will always be the force that ultimately keeps them both true. Love accepts and love forgives; love differentiates between the sinner and the sin. Love redeems.
Beautifully stated, Mary.
I wholeheartedly enjoyed this episode, but I agree with your points on where it was "off". The timing of HF right after Monster Movie definitely affected it's reception.
The hallunciations Dean was having were great & scary. Especially Lilith. That specific incarnation of Lilith creeps me right out! Also? Anytime we get to see Evil!Sam makes me happy.
Plus, Evil!Clock of Doom! got destroyed in this episode! I have a theory that the reason the Winchesters have had such awful things happen to them is directly tied to that sunburst clock, since it seems to follow them wherever they go. *grin*
Dear Kripke; AGAIN with Dean's heart?! STOP IT!!!!!As much as I'm looking forward to finding out what Dean experienced
( ... )
Thanks, Rap! We are singing in chorus, I think ... although I kinda figured the clock was like a cursed penny, just following them everywhere ... *grin*
I get the feeling that we're about to embark on the intensity roller coaster from now right up through the holiday hiatus. I hope our hearts are up to it!
I have to admit I quite enjoyed the episode because of its interesting mix of humour and darkness. The comedy never went over board for me because Jensen's acting kept it real and always managed to display Dean's extreme vulnerability beneath, no matter how humorous the situation. There were laughs that got stuck in my throat because of the horrific implications the situation held for Dean. So yeah, that worked well for me.
It felt wrong to me that, with only 24 hours remaining on Dean’s clock, Sam would have been so apparently callous (...) See, while the episode was from Dean's point of view, the real focus of the episode was Sam's reaction to the 'Dean is dying' scenario for me. The difference to episodes like Faith or Mystery Spot for example was striking. Sam has changed during the time Dean was in hell and this episode highlighted that exceptionally well and perfectly in sync with Sam's characterisation in S4 so far
( ... )
I like your thinking that Sam's relative detachment was indicative of how he's changed since he lost Dean the first time and still survived, and that he recognized that he needed to stay focused on the mission to win. I agree that is part of how he's changed - he's compartmentalized, the way John did. I think a large part of his reaction to Dean was also simply that he couldn't predict or prevent Dean's irrational responses. He still supported Dean, even though it didn't come nearly as naturally to him as supporting him came to Dean.
I still think that both Bobby and Sam were "off" in not being concerned enough about Dean with the clock ticking down. Even with Sam's behavior being explained in part by his knowing that he could go on, Bobby's reaction was still wanting, given how he evidently retreated to alcohol after Dean died and Sam left before. As much as Dean sees Bobby as a father figure, he evidently sees them as sons, and to lose Dean so soon after having gotten him back would have been brutal. Bobby is low-key, but
( ... )
I think part of the problem was that, given the preview, we were all expecting an angsty episode, especially since the previous one was already a funny one. It was not, and it was... unsettling.
Sam's attitude bothered me, but it can be seen as part of his character development since the beginning of season. The impression I've got was that Sam couldn't really bring himself to consider the threat as serious: maybe because Dean's behavior was so ridiculous and childish, maybe because as Dean survived Hell, Sam couldn't see him dying from mere ghost sickness. Or whatever.
There were still good moments (as in every episode). I didn't know what the word "gassy" meant. You learn something new every day!
Even a slightly "off" episode of Supernatural is better than nearly anything else on television. There was a lot here; it just didn't fit together seamlessly, as we have come to expect.
I agree about Sam's attitude in part reflecting how he's changed in the time since he lost Dean. I'd be curious to know if Sam had a different reaction after it all was over, when the deadline didn't matter any more and he could think about what happened and how close he actually came to losing Dean again. I tend to be good in a crisis and only suffer from the shakes afterward, when my brain fills in all the might-have-beens about what could have happened; I wonder if Sam might be the same way. Not that he'd show it to Dean; that would be when he took a walk ...
Speaking of "gassy," Jared's farts have evidently been epic, to judge from that script ... *grin*
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including why it took nearly twenty years ... not to mention how and why O’Brien’s wedding ring turned up there
I can answer - I think the (extremely subtle) explanation given was that O'Brien had returned to the scene of the crime after twenty years to reflect on what he'd done. (Snake guy did say "he'd gotten better" so I imagine it was out of guilt.) That's why his wedding ring was left there so recently, and when he left, he took the ghost disease with him to infect others.
I have no idea what the true targeting-the-victim method was - going by what Kripke said, the episode flubbed it a little there and it will probably only make sense in hindsight.
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Beautifully stated, Mary.
I wholeheartedly enjoyed this episode, but I agree with your points on where it was "off". The timing of HF right after Monster Movie definitely affected it's reception.
The hallunciations Dean was having were great & scary. Especially Lilith. That specific incarnation of Lilith creeps me right out! Also? Anytime we get to see Evil!Sam makes me happy.
Plus, Evil!Clock of Doom! got destroyed in this episode! I have a theory that the reason the Winchesters have had such awful things happen to them is directly tied to that sunburst clock, since it seems to follow them wherever they go. *grin*
Dear Kripke;
AGAIN with Dean's heart?!
STOP IT!!!!!As much as I'm looking forward to finding out what Dean experienced ( ... )
Reply
I get the feeling that we're about to embark on the intensity roller coaster from now right up through the holiday hiatus. I hope our hearts are up to it!
Reply
I have to admit I quite enjoyed the episode because of its interesting mix of humour and darkness. The comedy never went over board for me because Jensen's acting kept it real and always managed to display Dean's extreme vulnerability beneath, no matter how humorous the situation. There were laughs that got stuck in my throat because of the horrific implications the situation held for Dean. So yeah, that worked well for me.
It felt wrong to me that, with only 24 hours remaining on Dean’s clock, Sam would have been so apparently callous (...) See, while the episode was from Dean's point of view, the real focus of the episode was Sam's reaction to the 'Dean is dying' scenario for me. The difference to episodes like Faith or Mystery Spot for example was striking. Sam has changed during the time Dean was in hell and this episode highlighted that exceptionally well and perfectly in sync with Sam's characterisation in S4 so far ( ... )
Reply
I like your thinking that Sam's relative detachment was indicative of how he's changed since he lost Dean the first time and still survived, and that he recognized that he needed to stay focused on the mission to win. I agree that is part of how he's changed - he's compartmentalized, the way John did. I think a large part of his reaction to Dean was also simply that he couldn't predict or prevent Dean's irrational responses. He still supported Dean, even though it didn't come nearly as naturally to him as supporting him came to Dean.
I still think that both Bobby and Sam were "off" in not being concerned enough about Dean with the clock ticking down. Even with Sam's behavior being explained in part by his knowing that he could go on, Bobby's reaction was still wanting, given how he evidently retreated to alcohol after Dean died and Sam left before. As much as Dean sees Bobby as a father figure, he evidently sees them as sons, and to lose Dean so soon after having gotten him back would have been brutal. Bobby is low-key, but ( ... )
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Well, the episode didn't work much for me either.
I think part of the problem was that, given the preview, we were all expecting an angsty episode, especially since the previous one was already a funny one. It was not, and it was... unsettling.
Sam's attitude bothered me, but it can be seen as part of his character development since the beginning of season. The impression I've got was that Sam couldn't really bring himself to consider the threat as serious: maybe because Dean's behavior was so ridiculous and childish, maybe because as Dean survived Hell, Sam couldn't see him dying from mere ghost sickness. Or whatever.
There were still good moments (as in every episode). I didn't know what the word "gassy" meant. You learn something new every day!
See you!
Elsa.
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Even a slightly "off" episode of Supernatural is better than nearly anything else on television. There was a lot here; it just didn't fit together seamlessly, as we have come to expect.
I agree about Sam's attitude in part reflecting how he's changed in the time since he lost Dean. I'd be curious to know if Sam had a different reaction after it all was over, when the deadline didn't matter any more and he could think about what happened and how close he actually came to losing Dean again. I tend to be good in a crisis and only suffer from the shakes afterward, when my brain fills in all the might-have-beens about what could have happened; I wonder if Sam might be the same way. Not that he'd show it to Dean; that would be when he took a walk ...
Speaking of "gassy," Jared's farts have evidently been epic, to judge from that script ... *grin*
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