It's depressing. I mean, I've known about Shetterly for a while, but for some reason I'd expected better of Bull. And now I'll never be able to pick up War For the Oaks again without remembering that.
I know! It's one of my favorite books, in the running for my favorite fantasy book outside of Diana Wynne Jones's works. And I really liked Emma Bull when I saw her at cons and stuff. Mrph.
Biiiig frowny-face for everyone who acted like they were interested in changing and then decided they weren't. At least Orson Scott Card owns his bigotry and lets it all hang out. Other people, though. . .all they know or care to know is that as long as they're not doing overtly racist things like burning crosses on other people's yards or calling people racist epithets, they aren't racists.
::sigh:: And I liked "War for the Oaks", too. Eventually I'll do what I do with OSC and continue to read them as long as I don't put money in their pockets by doing so (libraries, secondhand bookstore, etc), but for right now I need to go hide our copy so I don't accidentally-on-purpose burn it.
I'm doing the not terribly mature thing and pretty much ignoring everyone. I realize I should try to read more of these posts but...I cannot actually deal right now, which make me feel bad. Maybe when I'm not sick and stressed out* I'll try to read stuff. *hugs*
*It's not even all bad stress, but it's still stress. And now I've made it all about me. *sigh*
Oh, don't feel bad! It's a huge amount of stuff to read and it's guaranteed to hit difficult spots, and it'll still be there when you're ready, at least most of it; I haven't been keeping up as much as I could've, either, really. *hugs* I hope you feel better soon, on all fronts.
If you do do one thing right now, I'd recommend kita0610's vid. It's short, but effective, and not directly tied into the rest of the stuff in this post. And sort-of-hopeful by the end...
...I missed all of this. um. I'm glad. but what, what, what, Emma Bull? what leaves me baffled about this particular go-round is how someone skilled at empathetic creation of experienced identity can, not so much turn those skills off, as not turn them on when reminded to. how can someone write a character like Sparrow and then turn around and completely fail to comprehend the extent of one's privilege, in dealing with things that the rest of the world cannot take for granted? Especially when it's clearly and articulately pointed out?
watched that vid; thank you for the link. it made me cry.
...I was thinking about this a little more. usually I actively avoid these kinds of Internet blowups -- sexism in science is another one that keeps going around -- because I tend to think that they're dispiriting exercise in seeing all of the awful prejudices people have dragged up to light and how incredibly ugly people get about when called on it. It's not productive -- it's just an exercise of rubbing your nose in the ugliness of your fellow humans, which can be dreadfully discouraging, especially when you know you have to go work with these kinds of people the next day and smile about it anyway.
But I think maybe I should be going and reading some of these racism-in-fandom posts, at the very least deepad's, because I might be on the unprivileged side of the women-in-science debates, but I have white privilege out the wazoo. And that makes a big difference.
*nod* Yeah, it can definitely start to be simply Not Useful to obsessively follow flamewars... But in the long run, I do think they can be useful, particularly the ones about these kind of issues. There's so much I hadn't realized about privilege in general and most especially my own privilege before starting to really pay attention to some of this stuff last year or two (and I know that the sheer loudness of some of the blowups is part of what got me to pay attention, you know?), and even now, I know that I'm still hella ignorant about some things and that about others I will always have unhelpful kneejerk reactions, and that I'll never swing all the way over to any one side and that people will always be frustrating, and yet... And yet, I'm so grateful to be thinking about this, to be deepening my understanding by taking in some new perspectives and analytical tools, and to know that there are other people out there also trying to figure some of this out
( ... )
I also think you're right about it making a big difference what "side" you're on -- because for the less privileged, it can seem almost redundant to be discussing something so obvious, yet that you still end up having to watch otherwise awesome people try desperately to deny... over and over and over. And yet you also can't ever actually avoid it -- being able to avoid it is essentially a sign of privilege.
If you ever want to talk about it more, I (and my highly spotty understanding) am here.
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::sigh:: And I liked "War for the Oaks", too. Eventually I'll do what I do with OSC and continue to read them as long as I don't put money in their pockets by doing so (libraries, secondhand bookstore, etc), but for right now I need to go hide our copy so I don't accidentally-on-purpose burn it.
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*It's not even all bad stress, but it's still stress. And now I've made it all about me. *sigh*
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If you do do one thing right now, I'd recommend kita0610's vid. It's short, but effective, and not directly tied into the rest of the stuff in this post. And sort-of-hopeful by the end...
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watched that vid; thank you for the link. it made me cry.
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But I think maybe I should be going and reading some of these racism-in-fandom posts, at the very least deepad's, because I might be on the unprivileged side of the women-in-science debates, but I have white privilege out the wazoo. And that makes a big difference.
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http://www.publishersweekly.com/blog/400000640/post/300039630.html
by rosefox, which came quite late in the discussion, but therefore has a nice little summary and a calm, interesting perspective.
I also think you're right about it making a big difference what "side" you're on -- because for the less privileged, it can seem almost redundant to be discussing something so obvious, yet that you still end up having to watch otherwise awesome people try desperately to deny... over and over and over. And yet you also can't ever actually avoid it -- being able to avoid it is essentially a sign of privilege.
If you ever want to talk about it more, I (and my highly spotty understanding) am here.
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